Sportsbooks that don't tolerate winners

[sportshobby]

It is possible to win playing sports, just as it is possible to win at poker. I don't mean one day or one week, but over a whole season or longer. In both games, the house has the advantage overall, but the odds to each player is not fixed and is dependent somewhat on skill.

However, some sportsbooks make it a cause to be sure that they beat each and every player, chasing away any player that is winning or appears to have a chance of winning. Thse sportsbooks say "we don't want any sharp action," or "we just cater to the small recreational player." What are they really saying? Is it "we don't want any winners"? Is it "we don't want to take any chance of a player beating us"?

Anyone who likes betting sports hopes to gain proficiency and maybe even make some money. If that goal is not possible, then we're really just talking about throwing money away for a thrill and a gamble - may as well go to the online roulette wheel and give it a whirl. Let's face it, one of the enticing thing about sports betting is the lure of the possibility of making a profit. These sportsbooks want to turn sportsbetting into a casino, where skill is not a factor.

If you have a choice of playing at a sportsbook that allows winners, or at one that does not, which would you choose? I intend to post and maintain a list here of sportsbooks that don't tolerate winners, and suggest that players avoid those places.
Here's an initial list of winner-chasers to avoid:

BET365USA
BetAustralia
BetWSI
Canbet
GameDay
Grand Central
Heritage
Las Palmas
Oasis
Sports Interaction
V-Wager
WagerStreet
William Hill

[Blowfish]

I think we need to distinguish between the different types of winners. Some books tolerate small winners....and throw out the big winners because they *might* be sharp.

Intertops is famous for throwing out anyone who wins $20k or more. I had a friend who used all his friends names....getting them all thrown out in the process at Intertops.

And while most of us know......but it shouldn't be forgotten......betonsports.com aka Big Nasa has also had several questionable transactions in the past.

[brink]

Truer words have never been spoken sportshobby.

These books are flat out saying we only want losers. A real bookmaker doesn't care who wins. He understands that there will be winners and there will be losers and it's not personal. He makes out in the end.

The biggest joke is the books who will only take a limit play from you at a certain number and won't let you play it again, yet the same number remains and others can come in and play it. What difference does it make if I play the game again or some other guy plays the game??

Then you have the books that are scared to death of steam. Yet if you were a player who just played all the steam games over the last month or so you'd be a loser. These books are just throwing away profits.

Take a bet, and move the number. It's that simple.

The fact is, 99% of these books are not real bookmakers. They have been taught to move their lines when the real books move their lines. Most of these books have probably learned their trade right here in posting forums on the net.

How many "real" bookmakers do you figure there are out there? Maybe half a dozen? Grande comes to mind.

Sportshobby, if you're going to make a list, it's going to be a long one. The shorter list would be a list of real bookmakers. Books that do what they are in business to do, take bets!

[dideh]

This is a very interesting thread, and I am looking forward to the future posts. Thanks for bringing up an intriguing (and potentially -very- useful) topic.

[sportshobby]

One of the things that made this forum so interesting and visited in the past was the interesting topics, and getting inputs from different perspectives. In this thread I'm most interested in the perspective of other players, but, hey, a bookmaker perspective would also be interesting.

Initial list of "winner-chaser" sportsbooks posted in the original message at the top of this thread.

[Dragon]

Do books that kick you off the internet and only allow you to phone in your plays count? Would they fall under the category of books that chase winners or make it more difficult to win?

Because if that's the case, then you have books like Olympic and CRIS both of whom either kick winners off the net or drastically reduce their limits.

The list of books that either kick you out all together or make it very difficult to play is endless and contains some of the giants.

wsex
millenium
cris
olympic
carib
bowmans
betaustralia
bodog

I mean, it's really not worth continuing.

I'm not saying these books are bad, or that every and any halfway sharp player will encounter problems at these books, but I'm just pointing out that hardly any book is exempt from some sort of policy making it hard on a winning player.

Can't really zoom in on the books on the initial list that SH made above when so many others do similar things.

[sportshobby]

Dragon, if you are one of the seventy-three thousand players that try to jump on the same play at the same time when the screen is going black, then I don't blame them at all. I want the sportsbooks to manage their risk and exposure, so they'll have the money to pay if I win.

Confining certain types of players to phone wagering seems to be a reasonable thing to do. And even reducing limits to half of the posted levels seems to be a reasonable thing for a sportsbook to do. Of course if a sportsbook advertises $2000 limits and puts a player on a $200 limit, then that's same as chasing him, so there is a grey area there.

When you put books like CRIS in your list, you're defeating the whole purpose of the post. I hope to encourage players to play at sportsbooks that will actually allow one to win.

[stardust]

Telll me who got booted/had limits reduced at:

wsex
millenium
cris
olympic
carib
bowmans
betaustralia
bodog

I am especially interested in WSEX, OLYMPIC and Carib,. I never heard of such a thing.

[Dragon]

Stardust, either myself or associates have either been booted or had limits cut at all of those mentioned above and many more.

wsex - limits cut
millenium - kicked out
cris - internet limit cut
olympic - not allowed to play on the internet
carib - limits cut
bowmans - kicked off internet
betaus - limits cut drastically
bodog - booted

But then, if I was a sportsbook, I would probably kick me out too, so I'm not really complaining.

[stardust]

Well that settles it - if you can't win, the game is rigged. I'm a very small player very unlikely to get booted, so it doesn't affect me directly, but I must say it's discouraging to hear.

I'm thinking of taking down my post up $ and finding a new hobby.

[sportshobby]

We have to recognize the issue the books have when many players rush to play the same wager at the same time. This is especially true for wagers made over the internet, where I'm told some software cannot effectively control the number of wagers that come in simultaneously.

So making some reductions in limits for steam players is a reasonble thing to do, in my opinion. For the sake of argument, let's make the cutoff at a dime, unless the site clearly advertises less for all players. Limits cut below these levels will be taken as effectively chasing the player.

If we listed every book that has ever cut a limit, we would have just about all of them, defeating the whole purpose of the post. I just think players should consider playing at a sportsbook that will allow them to win, if they are so fortunate to do so.

[Dragon]

In what way does Canbet not tolerate winners? I have had limts reduced there, just as at someof the others I mentioned, but not kicked out. We're you kicked out?

I guess I'm having a hard time seperating someone who plays steam, and someone who wins.

Really, what should be the difference?

If you're a sharp player, and play a game 2 hours before it moves, is that somehow different than someone else trying to play it as it moves?

I don't know about that software problem. I can't imagine it's too difficult to change a number and limit how many bets are taken online at whatever number.

Let's make sure we are on the same page here.

What you are referring to, is that you log on or calls these books on your list well in advance of any movement, make your plays, and yet still get the boot. Correct?

[sportshobby]

Any sportsbook could reduce limits to a ridiculous point, such that they were useless to the player. This is effectively chasing the player, but with a disguised approach. So we have to set some threshold, below which it is deemed to be chasing.

For the purpose of this thread, I've set that threshold at one dime, unless the site clearly advertises a limit less than that for all players.

Dragon, Canbet cut my limits to less than half of that, to less than half their advertised limits.

As far as steam goes, there is occasionally the game I am watching, notice it is getting played and rush with the other masses to play before most of the move. But more common by far is that I play my own games before any moves.

[sportshobby]

Maybe a separate thread listing those that allow winners would also be interesting.

[sportshobby]

OK, surely I'm not the only player on the planet that the books hate . . .

I was expecting to hear from players and bookmakers on this one.