Jeff - Re New Age Bets

[pgh]

Jeff, you state in reference to NAB $50 ten time rollover deposit bonus:

"Another well known book has used this offer or one very similar to it with great success."

Can you disclose which sportsbook you are referring to?

I agree with your assessment. In my opinion, blaming bonus promotions as a reason for a sportsbook's failure is way over exagerated. I think that this is most often used as an excuse, when the real reason of the failure is the overall mismanagement of the sportsbook. I am sure we all have seen a business or two with a great product only to go under because of mismanagement.

[Jeff]

pgh,

I don't think I'd discount the bonus promotions all together as a potential sign of trouble. For example........

Years ago there was a book that went by the name of Global Sports Connection. Also known as Betmaker.com....

One year, I believe it was basketball season, they sent out a special promotion to all their players. You'd get an extra 20% bonus if you left your moneyon deposit and didn't withdraw. Of course at the time there were only a handful of books and the industry and bonuses in general, were new...........come to find out years later, GSC was broke at that time. Well, the promotion helped, and GSC went on th become a major success story, but the promotion was a last ditch effort to avoid payouts and a cash crunch. So you can read into certain promotions.

Of course they didnt get into trouble by offering the bonus, they got into trouble for the reasons you mention above.

But I don't believe a $50 promotion with a 10 x rollover is cause for concern, in general.

Intertops, probably on everyones top 5 as far as being among the most solid in the world, routinely gives away $50 and $100 prizes here on bettorsworld (thank you intertops) and I don't think anyone would be concerned about that.

The book that has run similar promotions here on the site and others is MVP Sports.......and they have 3 related books, V-Wager and players-sb being the other two, and by all accounts, they are all thriving.

[stardust]

Steve - I am a moderator - limited to kicking out touts and other free loaders from the forums. Consider me the trash man.

I am not, nor should I be, in the business of giving a thumbs up/ down to advertisers. When I see a thread about a book, if I have any experience, I share it. That is not as a moderator, but as a very small player. I despise Intertops and Pinnacle, among others and don't play there, but would never say they don't pay because they both do.

When I see a 50% bonus offer, I am not in a hurry to post up because I know there is no free lunch. If you need to be warned that these offers signal cash flow problems, you're not astute and will soon be parted from your money one way or another.

Carib ran/runs a deposit $100, get a $50 bonus, but I am not worried about them paying - though I wish they would offer me a reload bonus

BW takes a low key approach to removing books from the list. The take them down quietly based on player feedback. Big announcements only make matters worse in some cases where the news causes players to panic and they all make a run on the bank, as it were. Books that wouldn't have failed will under those conditions and of course some fail anyway.

NAB was taken off the MW list a short time ago - based in part on unpaid advertising they bought there. Both the BW and MW lists advise the players to check both lists. Did these NAB players do that regularly?

Had some of the folks being burned by NAB done that perhaps they could have maintained small balances and limited their exposure, or avoided them all together.

Players have to check the lists, exercise diligence and trust their instincts. Even then, as we all know, some books will simply lay down without warning ala Aces Gold, or "Places Fold" as I like to call them. Like it or not, these are the conditions we all accept once we send money offshore.

This whole mess of books going under is bad for business - all of them. After a while Joe Six-Pack will decide that between his credit card company refusing to accept charges from offshore and the unstable nature of the books - it just won't be worth it to send money to Antigua, Belize or any other place. They'll simply go local and avoid the whole mess.

The books and governments "regulating" them better wake up because players getting stiffed is simply grist for the mill as far as Senators Kyl and the like are concerned. You won't have to worry about the US outlawing the books, they will die from neglect if players lose confidence about getting paid.

[marlowe]

Sonny,

Wednesday morning, the day after the shit hit the fan re NAB, I checked The List. Near the top of The List, just below "Bettorsworld and The List have been SERVING THE OFFSHORE INDUSTRY SINCE 1995!!!!!" is a box containing the names of almost 40 sportsbooks. NAB, as it has long been, was among these books. I did not further scroll down the page to see if NAB was among those books listed with location and bios. I assumed that it was, which seems a reasonable assumption given that it was listed in in the before mentioned box which is given such prominent attention and that currently every book in this box is listed below with bio/location info.

If I wind up being stiffed of my near 4 dime balance at NAB that will bring my stiff total to over 16 dimes I have been stiffed by books that were on both the BW list and the MW list this year. No one is responsible for these books failures but the books themselves. No one is responsible for my losses but me. However your assertion that NAB players could have avoided their losses by checking the BW and MW lists is erroneous as NAB was on the MW list and if not on the BW list (as I believe it was) was certainly prominently displayed near the top of The List page.

My mistake, again this is my mistake and no one's fault but mine, was giving my credibility to these lists when I chose sportsbooks to place my money with. Sixteen dimes hurts badly and before anyone else gets stiffed a sum that hurts them I would strongly encourage them to reevaluate the credibility they want to give these lists.

[Jeff]

marlowe-

You are correct. NAB was there on Wednesday. We were unaware of any problem before that.

I think what Sonny was suggesting was that perhaps if someone made it a point to check in on both they might have seen that NAB was off of one sites list and could have gotten a jump on the process or brought it to the attention of this forum, for example.

You're right as well about the lists in general. There is no perfect list. There are flaws in all sites. No one can know the financial status of any book unless they own the book.

All you can do, is do your homework and hope for the best.

But just as in elected officials, the players CAN have a say and an input in anyones list.

Of course I can't speak for any other site, but in the case of Bettorsworld, I repeat, if there are books on here that don't belong, be it an advertiser or a book on the list, and enough people can come forward, or anyone can come forward and provided specific reasons such as a slow pay or a no pay, or even if enough people were to come forward on a customer service issue, we would listen, investigate, and remove the book if need be.

If it's a rumor, we will call the book with you on the phone and try to get to the bottom of it.

I can't stress enough how dependent we are on your feedback to make decisions.

[stardust]

Marlowe - as I said - NAB had been removed from MW for failure to pay their advertising bill, so had anyone checked both lists, they would have discovered that NAB was not in good standing at both sites. Maybe that would have been enough to keep some players away, maybe not.

So my assertion isn't erroneous as NAB was NOT on the MW list, though it was on the BW list.

Hey friend, I feel for you - 4 dimes ! Holy hell that's just about my whole offshore bankroll. Just remember before you count that money as gone, that NAB isn't shut down. They may be having cash flow problems that turn out to be temporary, so don't give up hope just yet.

The other 12 dimes lost to Aces Gold, or whoever, is just a bad, bad beat - no question. Lots of people lost lots of money in that fiasco. And after Aces folded, I am surprised any offshore player hasn't instituted procedures to limit their exposure to the same kind of failures.

I don't know how big a player you are or anything like that, so a 4K balance might just be normal for you, but any player having a balance that is more than they need to be in action for the week is taking an unnecessary risk.

Like I said - if WSEX went belly up tonight, I'd find a new hobby because if players can't get paid, they can't ever win playing a rigged game.

[marlowe]

Sonny,

You remain mistaken. NAB was on MW's recommended list until Tuesday night.

[STEVE TURNER]

Jeff, the thread advetising New age, didn't say $50, it said 50% bonus. Big difference. But again, I don't want to get in a pissing match over something I knew nothing about. I hope more books advertise reduced juice and forget the outlandish Bonus offers. I LMAO every time I see Fidelity advertise 80% bonus. I know nothing of the offer, but I would bet its a switch and bait program.

Now this all hope New Age gets it together so no players loose there money. This type of a situation is one of those, Damn if I do and Damn if I don't. If I had money at New Age, I would try and work with them instead of blasting them. If they have a run on the bank, which I'm sure has now happened, they might sink to the bottom. Again, this all hope that New Age makes it.

[stardust]

OK - then I guess they took them down and then put them back up, because last I heard they had a dispute over ad $ and wound up off the list and in the stockade.

I just checked and they aren't in the stockade either which is kinda strange considering.

Maybe I have them confused with someone else.

[STEVE TURNER]

I just figured out what went wrong here. We didn't have Judge Judith around to warn us. LMAO