Raj Vishnu-NASA-Ugly Props

[Jeff]

bman,if the public is that dumb so as not to see what's going on, then so be it. Might as well close down. But I don't think they are that dumb. They will eventually figure it out.

As for good posters being banned, yes, you are right, we have banned the good posters who have posted things like bman sucks, or bman blows, you get the point. Matter of fact hartley banned many of them! Now they post the same garbage elsewhere. Gee, I wish they would come back! Please.

As for cjd333's post, it's inaccurate........Brians comments above came after Mark Del demanded to be put on "the list" and was told not yet. That didn't sit well with someone who is always used to getting what he wants.

What's even more funny about your reply, is that somehow, I didn't see you out there, anywhere, saying how wrong it was to slander this site and it's owners, particularly Brian. Why is that? Is it only ok if it's directed at us? And not ok if it's directed at anyone else?

If you're going to play high and mighty, do so across the board. Don't come in here and give me this shit about how bad we are unless your consistent with your remarks.

[Cashew]

Kudos to Brian for calling it like it is and finally seeing the true colors of Hartley and what a gutless puke Hartley really is

Hartley has become to MW what Sting is at Rx...a lapdog! And now that Hartley has to choose sides between MW and BW we see where his loyalty lies, or should I say DISLOYALITY!!!

Hmmmmm, MW is run by a Canadian, BW is run by an American, and Hartely is a Canadian

you connect the dots

:eek: :mad: :rolleyes: :cool: :confused: :p

[Cashew]

And another thing:

Where the hell does Hartley the Canadian get off telling us what is and is not Un-American!!

How the hell would he know? Just stick to telling us about Un-Canadian crap you loser piece of sh¡t!!!

[BERT]

The reasons why I personally visit this site are to look for informations about my online-books and the IMO very good threads about motor-sports - in NASCAR and Formula 1 there are sometimes very good postings and I would be very sad if Hartley wouldn´t be present any longer as a poster.

It was a two or three years ago when I´ve sweated about a payout from Intertops (they have closed my account and I had to wait over a month for the money - I was sure at this time that the money would be lost) when somebody at a betting-newsgroup gave me the adress of this site and I was one of the happiest guys of the world when I have read a thread from Hartley that nobody must have a concern about a payment from Intertops - this site was something similar like an entrance to the offshore-world for me and I´m glad that it exists.

I´m also playing at camelot and until now everything was perfect - I must admit that I´m a little bit more careful than with other books (in days of Neteller this is no big problem), because I don´t know anything about their financial background and because they are new, but as mentioned until now everything was OK.

I hope this site doesn´t become an exclusive American one and will stay international.

[Jeff]

Bert,

we will never be just an American based site. As a matter of fact we have a big project in the works which is geared strictly towards European sports.

[BERT]

Jeff,
good to hear - I know a lot of European bettors who want to make the step to the "offshore-world", but are too scared because they have not the "best" feeling when they should send their funds to places like Costa Rica (for some people Costa Rica sounds like Bangladesh ) - but you can be sure that there is a big interest from this side of the Atlantic.

[Bman66]

Jeff,

I have an account at Camelot and one thing's for sure:

I feel much safer about my money there and Mark's integrity, than I do about anything that comes out of your and Brian's mouths. This vendetta has just gotten ridiculous. Now you're emailing everyone saying to stay away. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. Do I agree with Mark sending you that email? No, but I can see why he was so hot. He's just trying to run a quality book and you guys are just out to flat out smear him. It's not right. I could maybe expect that from some other book owner posing as a poster, but the owners of this site?

Bman66

[Bman66]

And Jeff, the reason you haven't seen me defending Bettorsworld is because of your propensity to delete threads. How do I know what's being said? The only thing we ever see on this site is your voice, or Ten Dollar Yo's, or someone else that agrees with you. If this forum let both sides of arguments be heard, you may not be talking to yourself so much these days.

Bman66

[Jeff]

People trying to run quality books don't exert so much energy attempting to smear others like Mark Del does. He's always been so preoccupied with us, how the hell does he have enough time to run a book?

Thank you for your comments bman66.

[max1234]

This might be the best thread I've read here in the last month or two. I hope the moderators have taken note of it.

[Hartley]

(Sigh)

Cashew, (who btw don't think I haven't noticed, registered this month and has 4 posts total including 2 in this thread), I'm not going to get into a name calling contest with you, but I will state something and then I'll leave it at that.

What I am about to write is not coming from a former moderator but as a person that uses both forums. As a bettor (which is why I started using oddswiz years ago and bettorsworld after), I came to the forum for one of a few reasons.

1- To find out about evolving sportsbooks
2- To get some gambling information
3- To express my opinions on lines and to find out what others thought and
4- To play the contests.

I think the same holds true today. Most bettors come here or go to MW for one of the above reasons. And in reality when you look at the posters on each of the sites you'll see a lot of crossover which means that these posters (bettors), feel that each site has something to offer. But the last thing bettors care about is who did what to who.

Brian and Jeff claim that Camelot is not advertised here because the book "didn't qualify." Mark Del claims that the opposite is true and Bettorsworld owners are pissed off with him because he wouldn't advertise. I'm sure the truth is somewhere in the middle but as a poster here I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS!!!! And as little as I care about it, I'm sure this site's advertisers care even less. What's it to bettorsworld posters or to Jaguar Sports (as an example), whether Mark Del would or wouldn't advertise?? How is that going to help the bettor determine whether Camelot pays or whether Barry Bonds will hit #71 tonight?

Someone (obviously a loyal poster), asked a simple question "Has anyone had a problem with Camelot." He didn't ask for the history of Mark Del or why Mark was now posting regularly at MW, he simply wanted to know if bettors had trouble with the book. When it was clear that many posters here were playing with Camelot (and no I am NOT one), and had only positive things to say about the place (and don't sugest they were Mark Del planted posters, because many of them were here for years with thousands of posts each), the thread was closed. I won't comment on that because I've closed threads in the past, but it was always because the threads were libelous or there was offensive language. That thread had neither.

And to make matters worse a journalist associated with this site put up an article about the guy which served no purpose but to smear him. We've seen this before in gambling newspapers which all the posters here condemned and on other less scrupulous web sites but Bettorsworld had always taken the high road and avoided personal attacks. Obviously they no longer have that sense of pride. And it should also be noted that when another web site started going down that road, advertisers pulled out of the site en masse because they didn't want to be associated with that garbage.

Mark Del replied with angry comments which were truly awful, but the fact of the matter is they were sent in a private e-mail. Raj Vishnu's article on the other hand was public for all to see. It was Jeff who decided to make Mark's e-mail public. I know I've written things in e-mails which I realized later maybe I shouldn't have but I could always redeem myself by issuing an apology, knowing that the e-mail is private and wouldn't be seen by anyone else. Who hasn't said things privately that they realized later was a mistake, but eventually was smoothed over with an apology and possibly a handshake or a beer?

The bottom line is this. Bettorsworld has a lot of good things to offer the bettors and as such generates good traffic. MW, has good things to offer also and generates good traffic. The advertisers are obviously happy with both places because many advertise at both places (Intertops, WWTS, WSEX, Olympic, SOS etc.). But as advertisers I'm sure they are interested in two things - traffic and having a presence. But that presence is earned with goodwill. If this place is going to turn into the national enquirer, the respectable books who don't want to be associated with the nonsense will leave as we all have seen elsewhere.

And furthermore on the matter of loyalty, it is because I feel respect for this place that I pointed out how that article was in bad taste and was leading Bettorsworld down the wrong path.

But having said that what the hell is loyalty? Are you suggesting that a "loyal" person will visit with only one posting site? If so then I'm afraid the likes of Reno, Bman, Hiptwo, Yomonte, Dylansmith (all with thousands of posts here), are cheating on you!!!

As for the connection that I must be working for Majorwager because I am Canadian as is Russ, I won't even honor that with a reply. I remember in a Woody Allen movie once where he was trying to be philosophical and stated the following.

Socrates is a man
All men are mortal
Therefore all men are Socrates
Socrates is a homosexual
Therefore all men are homosexuals.

Unfortunately your comment makes about as much sense as that.

Grow up men and start listening to the posters rather than trying to fulfill your big egos. :confused:

[Truth]

Hartley is right. If MW keeps it's smear campaign going, the few places that actually pay to be over there will leave!

As for bettorsworld, kudos to you for exposing the bs.

Keep up the good work!

[alec]

Hartley,

Great post!

It has been about two years since I made my first post on Bettorsworld. It saddens me to see what happened to the site.

[yomonte]

Truth, MW is not in a smear campaign. Just some individuals at MW. I have yet to see anyone bad mouth MW and all I see is MW bad mouthing BW instead of the individuals that are related to this influx of negative out pouring. I hope this continues to focus on MD and not MW, because, like here, there are alot of great posters that have nothing to do with any of this. This is supposed to be a great place to have fun, not a recruiting place for a site war.
Jeff and Brian, you may say what you want about MD, as he brings on his own troubles, but please continue not to confuse him with MW as a whole.
Truth, I hope you will do the same.

[Jeff]

Just some individuals at MW?? Yeah, the owners! What a joke.