Players - Speak up! It's YOUR $$$$$

[Jeff]

Players, now more than ever it's crucial for you to speak up concerning the books you do business with. If you're gun shy and don't want to post your here, email me your rants and or raves at Jeff@Bettorsworld.com

It's important that you report anything out of the ordinary. No concern is too small.

Getting stalled? Getting the run around? Is YOUR book strong enough to make it through a tough football season?

Players need to stick together and make sure they maintain at least some control over their dealings with the different books. Don't lose that edge. You are the ones sending your money to people you don't know. You have EVERY right to report on how they handle your business!!

Time to make sure the cream rises to the top out there!!!

Those that frequently keep me posted, keep it up! Those that haven't been in touch before, feel free : jeff@bettorsworld.com

[chestrockwells]

Jeff,
There are really 2 separate issues. Safety and customer service. You know how I can get off on the whole customer service thing, and frankly there are a couple of books that I'll probably never re-up with because I didn't care for the service......but, that doesn't mean that they weren't safe. I understand why you probably feel a bit slighted or stung by the Directbet situation. Ultimately, we never really know how things are financially for a book. But with respect I would suggest that "the list" has grown too fast for the good of the player. I understand the realities of business and I also understand the difference between "the list" and what's up top. But in all candor I think we do know what the "safest" books are don't we?? And I would humbly suggest that it's not entirely fair to them that they be listed with other books that are offering 30-50% bonuses to new players........simply because they don't find it prudent to compete for new players (money) in that manner. I think that few will argue that there is "safe" and then there's "very safe". Here is my list of "very safe" and how long I've been playing with them, in no particular order:
Royal (continuosly since '97)
Post Time (continuously since '99)
Horizon (on and off since '98)
Pinnacle (continuosly since '99)
Victor Chandler (on and off since '98)
Sports Market/Aces Gold (on and off from '98)
I have never had anything remotely resembling a "problem" with any of these.

[PFunk]

Jeff,

I would have to agree with chestrockwells. There's a huge difference between the safe and the safest. I also believe the list has grown too fast. Sportsbooks operate a business. There is a lot of competition in the industry these days and you have to be careful who you play with. With that being said, the intentions of a sportsbook to make good on payments is not enough. Are they providing stellar service, good infrastructure, and playable lines? If not, would you play there? If not, would others? If not, what is the long term success of the book? Being able to pay today doesn't mean they'll be able to pay tomorrow. There are only a few books I will play through.

Grand Central Sports
Horizon
Royal
VIP
Aces Gold/Sports Market
Olympic
CanBet
SportingBetUSA
Diamond Sports (not DSI)
CRIS

Obviously, there are other good books, just haven't played with them.

I won't play with the following books for various reasons. Just because they pay doesn't mean I'll play there.

Casablanca
Bowmans
WWTS/Post Time
Pinnacle
Las Palmas/Wit
Millenium
Big Book/BoDog

Obviously, these are just my opinions. I will elaborate my experiences offline to anyone interested. I don't wish to make them public. Others may find these books great. I don't wish to bash any books that cause them harm because obviously, they have many admirers that would differ with me.

[Jeff]

pfunk and chestrockwells.....great posts. These are the kinds of posts we need more of.

You're absolutely right about the safety issue. Something I've always said, although apparantly not enough, is that sending your money to books is like investing in mutual funds. There's risky, aggressive funds, and there's ultra safe funds.

Some players are in a position to take on much more risk than others. Some players HAVE to take on that extra risk in order to succeed.

Other players are in no position to take on that extra risk.

If safety is a players primary concern, and they contact me off the record for advice, they are going to hear names like wsex and wwts.

It's 100% possible to play offshore and have just about ZERO risk of getting stiffed if that's your goal.

Perhaps we need to take a closer look at the list and make some changes.

As for the customer service issues, I actually had a book refuse a withdrawal recently after stating they hadn't received enough action.......that's the kind of bullshit I'm referring to when I say the player has to regain some control. That's a bunch of horseshit and shouldn't be tolerated. More on that next week.....

[Cons]

I think safety is going to be more important than ever after the recent DirecBet fiasco. I think bettors basically have two choices: A) stick to the big books that have been around since the dinosaurs roamed the planet B) play with relatively new books but only if there are government safeguards in place or the owners are very trustworthy people.

Intertops or William Hill are examples of the first option, both books are rock solid and have an unparalleled track record. If you go the second direction, Canbet and Sportingbet have their clients' funds secured in a trust account. As far as trustworthy ownership goes, I think Royal and Olympic would qualify as prime examples.

[FBallLover]

The good books send you your money right away every single time you take a payout. They deduct it from your balance usually within a couple of hours, and tell you what fees are charged. With these books your money's on your way as soon as you ask for it.

My list of safest books:

Aces Gold/Sports Market
Olympic
Del Mar
Victor Chandler
Royal
WWTS
Pinnacle

Favorite place to play:
Curacao (The good books won't tolerate any crap from slow-pays).

Worst Place to play:
Definitely Costa Rica. It's the wildest west out there. No one supports anyone there and if you get screwed you're on your own.

So you damn well better know the book you're in because in Costa Rica you're on your own baby.

[chestrockwells]

I think that at some point we've all been guilty of trying to pick up some bonuses here and there......and have looked at some books that perhaps are not as safe as some others that have been listed on this thread. Hell, I feel like picking up some bonus money today!! But if I do so, I'm going in with eyes open, no illusions and certainly with an "exit strategy".
Jeff, I think that holding off putting a book on the list is a much better strategy than pulling an existing one off. Perhaps a 2 tiered list with a highly recommended and a recommended section...... I don't know. And as for customer service, that's always been my pet peeve, but I am a bit surprised at your problem. Knock on wood, I've never had a request for withdrawal denied or stalled. That would really piss me off. It would be interesting to find out whether they were denying your withdrawal of your initial deposit, your winnings or the bonus or a combination of the above.

[chestrockwells]

PS. I think that just from the limited response so far to this thread......one can see a pattern emerge as the same names of "very safe" books come up over and over again. Let's face it, it's not rocket science. So the next time someone asks "hey what are names of very safe books that also have high sign-up or reload bonuses"???.......my answer will be NONE.

[FBallLover]

chestrockwells I think you hit the nail right on the head by your terminology...never experiencing anything close to a problem with anyone of them. That's the criteria I used for safest of the safe.

Out of that group Aces Gold offers up to a 16% bonus every football season when I reup although it's gone down in the last two years from 25% two years ago and 20% last year. Still a great book and a real leader over there in Curacao along with Royal and Pinnacle in weeding out the slow pays/no pays in the neighborhood.

[Eman]

Customer service issues aside, I know its my money and my decision but there are hundreds and hundreds of books out there.

I was always under the assumption that the books listed on THE LIST and this site were books a person wanted to post up with.

Yes, I have to make the decision but I thought they were are legit. One of the advantages of using this site and the click through banners was that Bettorsworld did the homework and had contact with these books. I have not opened an account with a book not listed here in Bettorsworld and many times the click through address said refer=bettorsworld or something like that.

I've been visiting this site a long time and DirectBet was new to here fairly recently (a few months or so I think). They came on as I recall just after Jazz Sports and about the same time as V-wager, I think.

I do watch the list to see what new books are listed here and I take a look at them. I realize Bettorsworld is a business, I like this site and believe in what it has to provide to us. So why wouldn't I give my business to someone that the best sportsbook site on the net says is ok?

Yes, I have funds at DirectBet. Yes, I'm disappointed at what is happening. Yes, I hope I get paid.

I read about the trips you guys make to visit this shops and that you do your best to make sure they are ok and there is unfortunately no guarantees.

I DO HAVE A PROBLEM THOUGH. I realize you are upset with them. I understand you blowing the whistle on their problems and that is your job. You stated your case and that should be enough to warn new players from using them. But as opposed to the front page saying they have no class, wouldn't it have been more useful if you tried to contact them and see if you could help because of all the contacts you have? Maybe they need a bailout and you could help. It's one thing to blow the whistle and stop new players from posting up, that's fine but since you did take their advertising and had them on your list, IMO, couldn't you do something to help the players that posted up. You didn't help the players that posted up by blowing the whistle, by that time, we couldn't have gotten money out, as a matter of fact I tried the day you posted your first message. Now, IMO, all that you did was alienate them so that you have no dialoge with them.

I know I got off the subject but I think you are between a rock and a hard place. If you come up with a "safest" list you might lose advertising that pay the bills from books you don't list. If you can't pay the bills, this site doesn't exist and it is necessary to have somebody watching out for players.

Sorry for the novel, I had about a 1 in 30 chance that I'd post up with a book that might go down off the books listed here. They say they will pay, I will wait and hope so.
nullIf something like this happens again, I can only request that you remember the people that posted up with them off this site as well as cautioning people about the book. There are two sets of people.

Thanks

Eman

[Jeff]

eman,

There is no "right answer". What if we knew of this, and kept quiet about it, and in the meantime, you sent them another 20 dimes? We've gone that route before in the past. As I stated, the number of people contacting us was staggering.

Understand something. Either you are going to get paid, or you're not. They either will get the money, or they won't. If the money isn't there, nothing we do or say will make it appear, short of promoting the hell out of them so those in the dark send money which in turn, they use to pay you.

It's easy to play the woulda coulda shoulda game. You know the saying, hindsight, etc.etc...

Bottom line is, Direcbet had alot going for them off the get go.

A guy from Darwin, a guy from Pinnacle Not to mention a favorable location - Curacao.

As for going too far and alienating them, the decision was already made by them not to respond. At some point, a message has to be sent in order to make things better in the future. We will not tolerate a sportsbook that has no problem using this site to solicit business when things are good, and turns and runs when things get shaky.

I understand 100% all of your comments and concerns. Yet, the point that I want to make clear is, we have been taken advantage of a few times in recent months and have done nothing about it. By doing nothing, it only sets the stage to be taken advantage of again. In the long run, this not only hurts us but more importantly it hurts the players.

[Jeff]

To follow up, I would hope players take necessary steps to reassure themsevles of the books they play in and take the steps to give themselves piece of mind.

Such as using netleller or pay pal to keep your balances at comfortable levels. Players can now keep much less on deposit than in days past, and still shop and use multiple books. You have a good week, draw down. It's your money. If they don't let you draw down, blast them on the forum or contact me.

We need your help to separate the pretenders from the contenders.

If books have problems keeping neteller funded, that should raise a red flag. Especially for smaller withdrawals. If done right, the book should really keep the deposit one sends via neteller in their own neteller account UNTIL THEY WIN THE MONEY.

Also, if you're thinking of posting up somewhere and have concerns, please contact me. All books aren't meant for all people/players.

[sportshobby]

Jeff, I applaud your hard line stance in situations like this. Especially if they have chosen not to post any message here, and have chosen not to address questions about their situation.

[Jeff]

While I'm on a roll.......

This is not about "Bettorsworld". ANY website that sends players to books no matter how big or small, has every right to expect the decency of a reply on an issue that may concern players sent there from that site.

It's also not about advertising. In what we do here, and other sites similar, there should be an open line of communication by any book that purports to be "reputable". Advertiser or not. If there isn't, it's only because the book in question is only willing to respond where it can control it's enviroment. Which should immediately make them suspect.

A good example of a book that has the decency to respond, and understands that although they don't advertise here, many of their players visit here, is Grand Central.

We had a guy contact us about a black jack problem today........we contacted Grand Central and got an in depth answer within 10 minutes! Nice job on their part.
It's easy to keep a book line that on the List.......

[chestrockwells]

Jeff,
I think it's an admirable goal to expect quality books as a whole to adhere to such standards. However, I think that it's a standard that few books, irregardless of any other issue, will care to live by..... especially on issues that they may find unpleasant. I think it's ok to get fired up about all this......... but let's not forget that most gambling sites, (or whatever you want to call them) care little about the player. Realistically you can count on one hand how many of these sites will even attempt to help the player out, am I right? Furthemore, we as players probably need to do a better job (when we sign up) to mention the name of this or whichever website sent us or where we read about them. Long term, the influence or at least rapport that people like yourself will gain may enable us to benefit from it in cases of disputes or misunderstandings.