Are players allowed to win?

[sportshobby]

If players are not allowed to win, is it a fair game? If winners are booted from a sportsbook, are the sportsbooks boosting their bottom line at the expense of a fair game? If winners have their limits reduced significantly below the advertised levels, is that a fair game?

[stuckinvegas]

Hobby baby, live and learn! Do they want you to win? Of course not. But how many people do you think do, on a regular basis. You think everyone in Vegas is a Lem Banker? And they haven't shut him off yet. But then again, he now works for them, and is nothing more than a shill! He gets all the publicity, and then tells the public what the bookies want him to say! They feed him enough info to keep him solvent, and he shows the world how smart he is.

However, if you really want to win serious money, just do the opposite of what they want you to do! For example, they really want you to take New England over Cinn. this week! I know you think Cinn. is a lock, but they aren't! The line is now down to PK, and how can you resist N.E. at that price. Drew Bledsoe vs. a nobody? How's them apples? Aren't you ashamed of yourself for stealing? I mean, is this the proverbial lock or what? People have been arrested for less! But Vegas, and Mr. Roxy, is giving you this game as a pickem! What nice people! I'm telling you, if you don't take New England here, you should have your head examined! NOT!!!

What the hell do you think you're in ? Disneyworld? Wake up people and smell the coffee. Do you think Mr. Oddsmaker is giving you a gift~
HA HA AHA HA AHA! Bet N.E. with both fists, and then scratch your head when you lose! Mr. Oddsmaker will love your action!

[sportshobby]

Kicking out winners is a virus in the sportsbook industry. Real government regulation would never allow such a thing.

And reducing a winner's limits significantly below the advertised levels, while maintaining or even increasing those limits for the losers, is basically the same policy.

[Ronbets]

Originally posted by stuckinvegas:

Drew Bledsoe vs. a nobody? How's them apples? Aren't you ashamed of yourself for stealing? I mean, is this the proverbial lock or what? People have been arrested for less! But Vegas, and Mr. Roxy, is giving you this game

Hey stuck, love your confidence and preconceived notions. Like yourself, I'm in Vegas, but not stuck. I got one ? for you. Are you in a time warp also? Roxy's been retired for over 2 years now. Gotta go. Heading over to LeRoys to bet your Bengals. If they win give me an address to send you half of my $10 bet.

[Dragon]

We'll. one way to look at it is, if they didn't kick out winners, the majority might be in jeapordy of getting paid.

I'm against kicking out. I think they should just limit winners. Will a nickel kill them? Of course not. If the nickel is too small, let the player go elsewhere.

[<omni>]

First of all, stuckinvegas is partly right. Remember that the large majority of sports bettors lose, and that large majority for the most part just make the most obvious picks. If a line looks too good to be true and you feel like you're stealing then there is probably something wrong.

But this is nothing but one dimensional handicapping. Betting the opposite of opinion might get you a few more wins, but not enough to give you the edge you need to make money. Believe me, you're not the first to think of this idea. You have to consider probability.

To answer sportshobby, it's simple. Your mistake is in thinking that it's supposed to be a fair game. It's just a business. A vehicle to make money for the bookmakers. If a winner can dip into their bottom line enough so that they can't make money, then limits will be ajusted. Stupid players really have no limits. The book will take their action at whatever they are willing to pay. On the flip side, winners have the lowest limits, of course.

Think about this. If a sportsbook were to advertise it's limits for sharp players as the limits everyone has to play in to, how many people will use their book? A lot fewer people, I'm sure. Everyone looks for that high limit book. No one really looks for a low limit book, because everyone starts out thinking that they are going to make money, and they don't want the amount of money they think they are going to win to be limited.

[sportshobby]

I'm really surprised at the players' responses, or lack thereof. Even if you've never been lucky enough to face this possibility, it should concern you. Can you win? Are you allowed to win? What would happen if you do?

If your sportsbook would cut back your limit significantly, or kick you out if you won, do you really have a chance? Do you have a fair shot?

[<fullofpace>]

on the topic of limits for winners. i was betting 500 matchups in nascar at united bet. i got on a good run and limits were than cut to 100 bucks. i e-mailed them to ask why and they said because i was winning.

i thanked them they sent me a check and they never got a chance to get back any of their money. i later got an e-mail saying that my limits were reinstated to 100% of the total limit.....it was 100 us dollars. so now every one is screwed.

my bad

[Dragon]

The key sentence is "even if you've never been lucky enough". Most never have and never will.

Those that are lucky enough, that's where the game begins. Beards, fake names.

I think everyone is allowed to win. Once. :mad:

[<bob>]

Allowed to win?

All depends who you play with.

Yes with a smile :

CRIS
Olympic
Grand Central
Sports Market
Grande
Delmar
Cascade
WWTS
WIT
Pinnacle
Jazz
Allworld
Carib
SIA
Camelot
Wagerstreet
and a several others.

NO:

intertops
bowmans
gold medal
7 palms
gameday
SBG

[Ronbets]

S/Hobby,

You started this thread by whining like a child. You're fearing someone's gonna halt your gravy train? Bob correctly answered your question without saying much. If you "got the nuts" on any sport, the clearinghouses will more than gladly accomodate anything you can fire at them. It appears to me that your are trying to bully smaller and slower outs. If that's your game, keep the crying towel available.

[ 09-05-2001: Message edited by: Ronbets ]

[sportshobby]

Ron, I always appreciate your brash honesty.

Bob, great list - thanks. Except SIA did cut my limit back drastically after winning a season.

But the point is not to whine. The question is whether a book is fair in claiming that they are simply not a "clearing house". Why should some books be able to throw out or severely limit the players that might win for a season? I don't see how it can be a fair game if sportsbooks don't allow some winners, along with all the losers.

[sportshobby]

If you had a choice of playing with a sportsbook that you knew would cut you off or severely cut your limits if you were able to sustain a winning streak for a season; or to instead choose one that you knew would just keep on writing the business and making their profit - which would you choose?

[hiptwo]

with the computer age, if you got a local you can bust his ass!! not bragging but my local (small time)has no idea! the thing i like with a local, is at least you can find him :D

[stardust]

Is it fair that books throw out or limit winning players - as I have said many times in the past - NO!

From a player's standpoint - this makes it a gaffed game. You can only win once and then your business is not welcome. That is a disgrace.

They couch the ejection in BS terms, calling winning players "wiseguys" and "sharps" whatever that means. How about a winning bettor?

On the other hand, were I a bookie, I would want to protect my interest by limiting action I knew was hazardous to the bottom line. No one wants to see them turn out the lights in a place they have their money.

Royal, for example has a "wiseguy policy"

Royal Sports has a perfect reputation for payouts. If we book it, and it wins, we pay. Occasionally we sign up "wise guys" and "syndicate" players.

These types of accounts will indeed experience different treatment. They may be placed on lower limits as an example. Please note, Royal has several wise guys already with established accounts. For all new players who emulate this style of play, it must be understood that:

Lower limits will be applied.
Online - All lines are refreshed on the Web page as the line(s) are adjusted. Once you have submitted a bet your line(s) will be confirmed to you on your confirmation page.
Phone wagers - We accept wagers from these types of accounts one at a time.

We will always give the first caller a chance at a rapidly moving number, but the next call will have to wait for a line adjustment.

As long as this is understood by the players who fit this profile, and they agree to work within our framework, we will gladly accept their wagers.

No matter if you agree with their policy, you have to give them credit for being up front about it.

I am just a small bettor, so I doubt even if I hit a huge winning streak, they will show me the door.

hiptwo - as far as beating the local guy, I am only able to get lines on Sunday, by which time the moves are well established. I am not sure I can profit following that late. Am I missing something?

As always - Good Luck,

Sonny