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**Railbird** · 07-09-2001, 06:11 AM

Hey Mickey

Why do you people have a chickenshit 20 cent baseball line?

Why when Tiger Woods plays in a golf tournament you wont put up a Tiger vs Field prop?

Can you please answer these questions in a timely manner,thank you.

**MICKEY@BETCRIS.COM** · 07-09-2001, 10:17 AM

RAILBIRD

Why do you people have a 20 cent baseball line?
It's a business decision. The 10 cent line was started in New York years ago...Our store helped promote it nationwide. After years of giving it a try we found the ten cent line to be a losing proposition, especially when we have to cover a big nut at the end of each week.

Why when Tiger Woods plays in a golf tournament you wont put up a Tiger vs Field prop?

I'll have to ask the line manager. I don't think we have had many request for that prop.

Thanks
Mickey
BETCRIS.com

**Curious** · 07-09-2001, 12:35 PM

Mickey:

It's VERY hard to believe that the 10� line does not make money when 90-95% of all books use it. It's possible that you may have a losing month, even a losing season, but over time it's HIGHLY unlikely you won't show a tidy profit. Your response that it is "a losing proposition" just doesn't ring true.

If CRIS truly felt that they needed to raise the price, there are many stops on the way to 20�. Why not a 12�, or a 15� line? It appears that you went to a 20� line to discourage certain groups from playing, and to take advantage of your large customer base.

It might be time to re-evaluate this "business decision". The groups are not winning like they were two years ago, and it is probably costing you a lot of money, as well as damaging your reputation.

**MICKEY@BETCRIS.COM** · 07-09-2001, 01:43 PM

Curious

I can only speak through my experiences in terms of our baseball business, maybe other books turn a profit during the season, I don't know. I tracked back the last five years and looked only at baseball wagers not the weeks when NBA and NFL coincided with baseball and the hold percentage was a joke. In other words, many bookmakers mix up the weeks with the NBA and NFL and assume that they do well in baseball. I know with the 10 cent line we wrote more volume than anybody and couldn't squeez a profit after expenses.

The syndicates, of course, are a threat but the general public can get on roll and sting the bookmaker ,more often than not, when it comes to baseball.

Curious said, "Your response that it is "a losing proposition" just doesn't ring true.

Maybe your right, depending on the type of store and the kind of action that you take, but without getting into a battle of who is right and who is wrong, I would like to make a statement and then ask a question.

We all know baseball has the lowest hold percentage for the bookmaker, if it was such a winning propostion, then why isn't football, and basketball a ten cent line. Wouldn't you rather lay -105 on the 49ers every weekend than lay -110.

This is just a question, I'm not trying to pull any punches.

Thanks
Mickey

**Curious** · 07-09-2001, 02:02 PM

Mickey:

Thanks for your quick response. Of course I would love to lay -105 instead of -110 in football and basketball, and I can at Pinnacle and Top of the World. Many other places have a lower than 20� line on those sports as well. Maybe CRIS could try a lower vig special for those sports too. What do you say?

As far as you saying that you couldn't squeeze out a profit "after expenses", since I don't have access to your records I can't verify the truthfulness of that remark, but it still doesn't ring true. Even if it was true, your expenses remain the same, and the small profit you say you were making helped to cover those expenses.

I will again ask the question you failed to respond to:
If CRIS truly felt they needed to raise the price, there are many stops on the way to 20�. Why not a 12�, or a 15� line?

I'm not trying to pick on you guys, the same comments all apply to Olympic and some others as well, I guess I'm just Curious.

[ 07-09-2001: Message edited by: Curious ]

**MICKEY@BETCRIS.COM** · 07-09-2001, 02:15 PM

We felt the same vig should apply to baseball as in football and basketball, plus thats the original way baseball was booked before the dime line.

Mickey

**Curious** · 07-09-2001, 03:11 PM

Not trying to be a wiseass, but if you felt the vig should be the same on all 3 sports (which is different from the reason you gave earlier), then why not lower the vig on basketball and football like other books have done?

What has the original way baseball was booked have to do with anything? The market today is a dime line.

Why the reluctance to try a 12� or a 15� line? It looks more and more like the real reason for the 20� line is to discourage certain groups from playing at CRIS, and to take advantage of your large customer base, and those that don't shop around for better lines.

**azbob** · 07-09-2001, 03:46 PM

Of course CRIS can use any line they choose and the marketplace will dictate how many players stay there versus float to those books who use 5, 10, 12, etc.

They made a business decision which, at the end of the year, will prove profitable or not based on the increase take versus the (potential) decreased action.

I trust that the books on the BW list are going to pay me so next I look at the line, vig specials, software, limits, accessibility and other factors to decide which books I'll keep in action. I'm thankful there are still plenty of choices although concerned about future consolidation.

The real problem is when every book offers only a 20 cent line and the player has no choice.

I also appreciate the insight of Mickey in this thread and the fact that this has actually stayed at a mature level of give-and-take conversation rather than moving in the direction of the other threads dealing with similar topics.

**Dragon** · 07-09-2001, 05:02 PM

I read where most books just assume close up for baseball. No profits. If that's the case, then Mickey makes alot of sense. But then we have to believe that all those top books that have a 10 cent line are losing money on bases. Year in and year out. That's not too encouraging as we look for places to play football!

**Curious** · 07-09-2001, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Dragon:
But then we have to believe that all those top books that have a 10 cent line are losing money on bases. Year in and year out. That's not too encouraging as we look for places to play football!

It's also HIGHLY unlikely.

**yanksfan** · 07-09-2001, 08:02 PM

I would think they are pricing themselves out of the market. I am far from a wiseguy. Use 3 sportsbooks. I would love to play at a place like cris, but i look for the 10 cent line, and will stay with those books for football. They miss out on my donations :D

**chestrockwells** · 07-09-2001, 09:46 PM

Hey, who wouldn't want a dime line or less even. But Curious' assertion that "90-95% of books use a dime line" is a pretty massive exaggeration!

**Railbird** · 07-09-2001, 10:12 PM

yeah, its 100% at the books I play at.

**Boots** · 07-10-2001, 03:43 AM

Sounds more like liquidating instead of consolidating. :D Any ways, thanks for the response, but nobody really expected you to say "Hey we had to gove up ABC because we owed a major debt we could cover with cash."

FACTS:

It took 5 days for Cris to come up with a response to a simple question.

Reality claims to be a personal consultant of Cris who has put deals together in the past.

Reality blasts the forum with Cris this and Cris that in the wake of rumors.

Even though they've denied this, it is highly likely the deposit and 10x's play was the Option/Cris buyout.

Reality spends 3 days dancing around the same simple question.

When he finally answered the question, he answers with a Cris press release and make his first public denial on having any knowledge about ANY Cris info. Maybe slightly exaggerated, but if any not very much.

Reality claimed that answering the questions would be akin to throwing friends under a bus. Thus proving that he WILL withold info from the public to save his bookie friends. And PROBABLY would shill for a bookie that may be in need of a little post-uppin'.

Readers,
You be the judge!

...these Boots were made for walking, and no one can say that they didn't. Today Reality these Boots...just, walked all over your tenet...|1 a2 & 3e^ a4 &| :|<<<<<<<{6}

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