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Buzz Daly's Sportbook Scene - Credit books (good read)
June 1, 2001
Crisis Looms in Silent Sector Of Off Shore Gaming Industry
Every industry has a dirty little secret, and off shore gaming is currently experiencing a disturbing trend which - while it is not necessarily a ticking time bomb - is more like a festering wound that is eating away at the resources of some books.
We’re referring to a crisis that is impacting books in a sector of the industry that is rarely covered in the media: credit business. Recently, due to a flurry of laydowns, welching, blowing off debts, call it whatever you will, bookmakers are experiencing severe problems in collecting legitimate debt from customers and agents.
Discussions with several longtime BMs about this issue revealed a common complaint: there is a lack of honor among players, who instead of paying off a debt are now simply reneging and looking for new places to play.
Since we are dealing with credit shops, no names of books or individuals will be mentioned here for obvious reasons.
No one is quite sure when the trend got underway, but bettors walking away from losses is in full bloom now. Said one disgruntled BM: “Players have no honor. They know we’re 3,000 miles away.
“With so many books offering ridiculous bonuses, instead of paying what they’ve lost, players will take that money, post up at a new shop, get a bonus and walk away from their debt.”
Of course, it’s not simply players who are creating the problem. Credit shops operate with agents, who are responsible for their players. But according to the books, the quality of agents has also deteriorated.
“We operate with agents,” explained one veteran bookmaker. “But when a big player lays down, the agents want us to make good. They come to us when a big one blows off a debt and say, ‘Hey, you always got your end when he was paying, now he’s laid down - I still want my percentage.’ They want us to eat it.”
Another bookmaker explained it thusly: “Say there’s a sheep who lost $10,000, and another guy wins $10,000. The agent wouldn’t have anything coming.
“But say the guy who lost doesn’t pay, and the agent is looking for us to pay the winner. That money is supposed to come from the agent. That’s the crux of the problem.”
Bookmakers complain there are agents who just don’t have enough funding to back up the customers they bring into a book, and make them good.
“That’s the way it worked in the old days, and why agents got such a ridiculous percentage. They would make good on the laydowns. But that’s not happening anymore,” said the owner of a medium-sized sports book.
Good agents are becoming an endangered species, according to the BMs we spoke with. Not only are they dishonest, but some of them have gambling problems.
Here’s a scenario that left one veteran BM absolutely furious. A customer was due $50,000, and a runner was dispatched to pay him off. But before the transaction could be made, the player lost back all the money and was in a deficit position.
The bettor told the BM he would call the runner and cancel the payoff. However, at the end of the day, the runner met the player and paid him the money.
The bettor swore he called to cancel the meet but couldn’t reach the runner, and left a message on his cell phone.
“So, then, why did the player take the money that wasn’t his?” asked the BM. “Because he’s scum,” was how he answered his own question.
However, the BM realizes it was he who screwed up. “I should have called the runner, not left it up to the player.”
The way credit books generally operate is an agent calls up and brings in a player. The book gives him an account number, a credit limit, and he plays under that agent. At the end of the week, the agent gets the figures for his players and is responsible for settling up with everyone.
When a player wins big on the sheet, while another loses big and doesn’t pay, the winning bettor looks to the book to make good. It is erroneously assumed that financial responsibility lies with the book.
Ideally, what books should do is explain to players who come in through agents that it is the agent who must collect and pay off. Books shy away from telling that to customers for a variety of reasons, including legal issues. So, the misunderstandings continue.
“I’m not a believer in violence,” advised one BM. “But there is a lot to be said for using it as they did in the old days. Back then, if you didn’t pay, you’d get a visit and either came up with the money or suffered some broken bones.”
Despite all the evidence that the system which has been in place for so long is broken and needs overhauling, old customs die hard.
“Players with good credit don’t have to post up. They can get credit at books or with agents. The problem is, you never know when a good one is going to turn bad,” explained a BM who has taken losses of six figures recently.
“Everyone has a limit where they just can’t pay. We don’t know what it is, and the bettor isn’t going to be honest and say, ‘Lower my limit to $5K per week, I’m not making what I used to.’
“The player still wants to bet in the same range he used to, even if he doesn’t have the money.”
Getting credit customers to post up is a struggle, but more shops are going to start making the effort.
“I’m not taking any new credit business,” said the head man for a large shop that has both post-up and credit customers. “We’re grandfathering in existing clients, and will make a rare exception if there is someone I know personally who will stand good for a bettor.”
Another BM told of a player who beat him for $50,000 two weeks in a row, and kept pulling the money out of his account. The player was told there is no more credit, and if he wants to play, leave the money up.
The BM said he would be physically sick if such a player refused to pay a loss after taking down so much money.
“This business has changed dramatically,” said a bookmaker whose experience includes stateside operations as well as running stores at several island locations. He suggested that there are only a handful of off shore books who are making money. The rest are spinning their wheels, due to the credit factor. His projection would, of course, preclude books that are strictly post up business.
The emergence of greater numbers of sharp players is also cited as a negative for the sports books. The general consensus of many BMs is that the 11-10 isn’t as strong as it used to be.
Complained one BM: “Everybody is a sharp player today. Everybody has Don Best. No one is laying a bad number. They all have 25 outs on a game, and unless you put up numbers that are out of line, you don’t get action.”
The same grousing is heard from post-up books as well. But what do credit shops expect? Dealing with agents, offering higher limits, requiring players to come in over the phone. There just aren’t as many sheep out there as in the old days, when guys from Alabama would bet the Crimson Tide, no matter if the local guy made them lay 12 when the rest of the world had the game at 9.
Bookmakers know the environment is changing. If a book has 1,000 regulars and on Monday night only 600 come in to make a bet, what happened to the other 400 customers?
“You know they’re not taking the night off,” asserts an offshore bookmaker. “They have to get down. They’re just going out and finding better numbers at different outs.”
Anyone reading this column who bets on credit has suffered at least one disaster in his betting career. We’ve had more than one, and haven’t bet on credit in years.
The issue of greedy agents and deadbeat players needs to be addressed in a meaningful way, pronto. First rate shops, which otherwise would be solvent, are flirting with disaster.
Credit is the American way of life, and despite all the positives of post-up business, we believe credit shops will never disappear.
But times change, as new customs and attitudes replace those of past generations. Shops that rely on credit business need to bite the bullet and start implementing stronger procedures.
Change of Pace. After the above doom and gloom, let’s head into the weekend with a "gaming lite" item.
A serious player we know who is a dollar bettor made a nice score recently. During the NCAA basketball tournament, he entered a contest at Pinnacle (www.planetpinnacle.com) and got a tiny piece of winnings ($25).
This bettor, who just happens to be a very sophisticated rotisserie baseball player, took the $25 and bet a five-teamer that hit for something over $500.
We’re not going to suggest that being a roto geek (sorry Barry) is a magic wand with which to beat baseball. But our bettor stays exceptionally current on up and coming rookies, and because he is a box score fanatic, he extracts a lot of useful handicapping info from raw data on a daily basis.
As we have often emphasized in this column, baseball is a beatable sport. It is just too bad so many bettors pull in their horns during summer, and are put off by the money lines used in baseball rather than point spreads.
Another point to consider is that baseball parlays are not the sucker plays that many football parlays are. Instead of fixed odds for parlay payoffs, as in football and baskets where vig becomes increasingly outrageous as more teams are added, baseball parlays use the betting line for each game in calculating the payoff.
Please send questions, comments, etc., to buzzdaly@aol.com, and visit our website at www.buzzdaly.com.
Crisis Looms in Silent Sector Of Off Shore Gaming Industry
Every industry has a dirty little secret, and off shore gaming is currently experiencing a disturbing trend which - while it is not necessarily a ticking time bomb - is more like a festering wound that is eating away at the resources of some books.
We’re referring to a crisis that is impacting books in a sector of the industry that is rarely covered in the media: credit business. Recently, due to a flurry of laydowns, welching, blowing off debts, call it whatever you will, bookmakers are experiencing severe problems in collecting legitimate debt from customers and agents.
Discussions with several longtime BMs about this issue revealed a common complaint: there is a lack of honor among players, who instead of paying off a debt are now simply reneging and looking for new places to play.
Since we are dealing with credit shops, no names of books or individuals will be mentioned here for obvious reasons.
No one is quite sure when the trend got underway, but bettors walking away from losses is in full bloom now. Said one disgruntled BM: “Players have no honor. They know we’re 3,000 miles away.
“With so many books offering ridiculous bonuses, instead of paying what they’ve lost, players will take that money, post up at a new shop, get a bonus and walk away from their debt.”
Of course, it’s not simply players who are creating the problem. Credit shops operate with agents, who are responsible for their players. But according to the books, the quality of agents has also deteriorated.
“We operate with agents,” explained one veteran bookmaker. “But when a big player lays down, the agents want us to make good. They come to us when a big one blows off a debt and say, ‘Hey, you always got your end when he was paying, now he’s laid down - I still want my percentage.’ They want us to eat it.”
Another bookmaker explained it thusly: “Say there’s a sheep who lost $10,000, and another guy wins $10,000. The agent wouldn’t have anything coming.
“But say the guy who lost doesn’t pay, and the agent is looking for us to pay the winner. That money is supposed to come from the agent. That’s the crux of the problem.”
Bookmakers complain there are agents who just don’t have enough funding to back up the customers they bring into a book, and make them good.
“That’s the way it worked in the old days, and why agents got such a ridiculous percentage. They would make good on the laydowns. But that’s not happening anymore,” said the owner of a medium-sized sports book.
Good agents are becoming an endangered species, according to the BMs we spoke with. Not only are they dishonest, but some of them have gambling problems.
Here’s a scenario that left one veteran BM absolutely furious. A customer was due $50,000, and a runner was dispatched to pay him off. But before the transaction could be made, the player lost back all the money and was in a deficit position.
The bettor told the BM he would call the runner and cancel the payoff. However, at the end of the day, the runner met the player and paid him the money.
The bettor swore he called to cancel the meet but couldn’t reach the runner, and left a message on his cell phone.
“So, then, why did the player take the money that wasn’t his?” asked the BM. “Because he’s scum,” was how he answered his own question.
However, the BM realizes it was he who screwed up. “I should have called the runner, not left it up to the player.”
The way credit books generally operate is an agent calls up and brings in a player. The book gives him an account number, a credit limit, and he plays under that agent. At the end of the week, the agent gets the figures for his players and is responsible for settling up with everyone.
When a player wins big on the sheet, while another loses big and doesn’t pay, the winning bettor looks to the book to make good. It is erroneously assumed that financial responsibility lies with the book.
Ideally, what books should do is explain to players who come in through agents that it is the agent who must collect and pay off. Books shy away from telling that to customers for a variety of reasons, including legal issues. So, the misunderstandings continue.
“I’m not a believer in violence,” advised one BM. “But there is a lot to be said for using it as they did in the old days. Back then, if you didn’t pay, you’d get a visit and either came up with the money or suffered some broken bones.”
Despite all the evidence that the system which has been in place for so long is broken and needs overhauling, old customs die hard.
“Players with good credit don’t have to post up. They can get credit at books or with agents. The problem is, you never know when a good one is going to turn bad,” explained a BM who has taken losses of six figures recently.
“Everyone has a limit where they just can’t pay. We don’t know what it is, and the bettor isn’t going to be honest and say, ‘Lower my limit to $5K per week, I’m not making what I used to.’
“The player still wants to bet in the same range he used to, even if he doesn’t have the money.”
Getting credit customers to post up is a struggle, but more shops are going to start making the effort.
“I’m not taking any new credit business,” said the head man for a large shop that has both post-up and credit customers. “We’re grandfathering in existing clients, and will make a rare exception if there is someone I know personally who will stand good for a bettor.”
Another BM told of a player who beat him for $50,000 two weeks in a row, and kept pulling the money out of his account. The player was told there is no more credit, and if he wants to play, leave the money up.
The BM said he would be physically sick if such a player refused to pay a loss after taking down so much money.
“This business has changed dramatically,” said a bookmaker whose experience includes stateside operations as well as running stores at several island locations. He suggested that there are only a handful of off shore books who are making money. The rest are spinning their wheels, due to the credit factor. His projection would, of course, preclude books that are strictly post up business.
The emergence of greater numbers of sharp players is also cited as a negative for the sports books. The general consensus of many BMs is that the 11-10 isn’t as strong as it used to be.
Complained one BM: “Everybody is a sharp player today. Everybody has Don Best. No one is laying a bad number. They all have 25 outs on a game, and unless you put up numbers that are out of line, you don’t get action.”
The same grousing is heard from post-up books as well. But what do credit shops expect? Dealing with agents, offering higher limits, requiring players to come in over the phone. There just aren’t as many sheep out there as in the old days, when guys from Alabama would bet the Crimson Tide, no matter if the local guy made them lay 12 when the rest of the world had the game at 9.
Bookmakers know the environment is changing. If a book has 1,000 regulars and on Monday night only 600 come in to make a bet, what happened to the other 400 customers?
“You know they’re not taking the night off,” asserts an offshore bookmaker. “They have to get down. They’re just going out and finding better numbers at different outs.”
Anyone reading this column who bets on credit has suffered at least one disaster in his betting career. We’ve had more than one, and haven’t bet on credit in years.
The issue of greedy agents and deadbeat players needs to be addressed in a meaningful way, pronto. First rate shops, which otherwise would be solvent, are flirting with disaster.
Credit is the American way of life, and despite all the positives of post-up business, we believe credit shops will never disappear.
But times change, as new customs and attitudes replace those of past generations. Shops that rely on credit business need to bite the bullet and start implementing stronger procedures.
Change of Pace. After the above doom and gloom, let’s head into the weekend with a "gaming lite" item.
A serious player we know who is a dollar bettor made a nice score recently. During the NCAA basketball tournament, he entered a contest at Pinnacle (www.planetpinnacle.com) and got a tiny piece of winnings ($25).
This bettor, who just happens to be a very sophisticated rotisserie baseball player, took the $25 and bet a five-teamer that hit for something over $500.
We’re not going to suggest that being a roto geek (sorry Barry) is a magic wand with which to beat baseball. But our bettor stays exceptionally current on up and coming rookies, and because he is a box score fanatic, he extracts a lot of useful handicapping info from raw data on a daily basis.
As we have often emphasized in this column, baseball is a beatable sport. It is just too bad so many bettors pull in their horns during summer, and are put off by the money lines used in baseball rather than point spreads.
Another point to consider is that baseball parlays are not the sucker plays that many football parlays are. Instead of fixed odds for parlay payoffs, as in football and baskets where vig becomes increasingly outrageous as more teams are added, baseball parlays use the betting line for each game in calculating the payoff.
Please send questions, comments, etc., to buzzdaly@aol.com, and visit our website at www.buzzdaly.com.
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