YES, they are the enemy!

[chestrockwells]

Now that I've got everyones attention, let me clarify. I don't post often but I"m totally tired of reading post after post by well meaning individuals who feel, for some reason, that part of what we as sportsbettors should do is protect the books. Oh let's not take advantage of a bad line. Oh let's not jump from book to book to take advantage of a bonus. Oh it's bad karma or some other crap. And on and on. All this, as if it's some sort of civic responsibility of ours to not take advantage of them "too much". Now obviously we don't want them going under, after all they have our post up money. That's a given. But let's step back here for a moment. In the first place, they are a business, supposedly run by intelligent people. It's their responsibility to protect their business from being taken advantage of.If they're not smart enough to figure out effective ways to do that, short of cheating us, then they don't belong in business. Their main goal, as a business, is to make money, specifically to get our money. Our main goal should certainly be to get theirs.........as much of it as possible, period. I mean my God, everytime you sneeze someone comes on here and swears how XYZ book is as good as gold or "is run like a Fortune 500 company". Well great, let's give them the benefit of the doubt then, that they can figure out how exposed they'll be if they give out a 15% bonus this month, or whatever the promotion is. I mean let's cut through the bs. If you're a bettor and you're sending your money 4,000 miles to an outfit that opened up last week........then you're just a little bit stupid. On the other hand, if you're dealing with a company that's been around, don't worry about them, protect yourself and take advantage to the max. of whatever deal you can get. After all, you can't eat karma! Oh and since I'm getting things off my chest here........the next time one of you (you know who you are) feel the need to compare a sportsbook to a Fortune 500 company, consider this. Take all the offshore books in the Caribbean, add them together and their combined profits won't even equal one Fortune 500 company's profit. Alright?

[Railbird]

Im with ya all the way,this is war.Al Davis says it best,just win baby.

[sportshobby]

It is a war in a sense - well said, Chestrockwells.

[tornado]

That is one of the most intelligent perspectives I have seen posted here in a long time. Very well stated indeed. Kudos to anyone posting a well stated and worthwhile statement/opinion. My post contains a subliminal ancient Hawaiian blessing for picking baseball winners. I can feel it coming our way. Good luck to all who read this thread. Surf's up.

[REALITY]

BRETHREN,

PLEASE LET US HARKEN BACK TO THE BOOK OF REALITY BEFORE OUR SOULS ARE CONDEMNED TO ETERNAL DAMNATION...

BROTHER REALITY


Author Topic: POSTING A -18 FAV. AT +18 WHAT IS A BOOK TO DO?
REALITY
Wiseguy posted 11-18-2000 09:31 PM
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FINISHING OFF A LESS THAN STELLAR SATURDAY TO SAY THE LEAST, THE LINE MANAGER FOR A MAJOR BOOK I DO CONSULTING WORK FOR CALLED ME ABOUT AN INCORRECTLY POSTED LINE IN HIS BOOK.

AN 18 POINT FAVORITE WAS POSTED AS AN 18 POINT DOG.

SUFFICE IT TO SAY THIS GAME ON THE NET GOT BANGED MORE THAN A LOCAL LADY OF THE NIGHT WHEN THE SAILORS DOCK FOR WEEKEND LIBERTY...

I'M SURE YOU KNOW WHAT I TOLD HIM TO DO.

HOW ABOUT SOME FEEDBACK FROM B.M.'S AND PLAYERS ALIKE.

KEEP IN MIND,YOU STEAL A DIME IT WILL COST YOU A DOLLAR.

BROTHER REALITY

THE CHURCH OF HONEST BETTING ETTIQUETE


[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 11-19-2000).]

IP: Logged

gord
Square posted 11-18-2000 10:19 PM
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Reality: I belive that when seeing a bad line the customer should report it and recieve a monetary reward. When a customer bets into a bad line his account should be flagged. After more than one instance the book should warn the customer that he will lose his account privlages if he presists.If the book is considerate enough to delete plays immediatly when a customer makes a mistake then customers should show the book the same consideration.
IP: Logged

REALITY
Wiseguy posted 11-18-2000 10:32 PM
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GORD,
WELL THOUGHT OUT ANSWER.

THE FIRST PARISHIONER IN BROTHER REALITY'S CHURCH OF HONEST BETTING ETTIQUETE.

AT LEAST WE KNOW WE CAN TRUST BROTHER GORD WITH THE COLLECTION PLATE.

BROTHER REALITY

-UB-
Wiseguy posted 11-18-2000 11:15 PM
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As long as the book has a rule for obvious line errors, it is ok to delete the bets BEFORE the game kicks. If they do not cancel the bets before the event starts, they should be honored.

IP: Logged

REALITY
Wiseguy posted 11-18-2000 11:17 PM
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UB,
WELCOME TO THE CHURCH OF HONEST BETTING ETTIQUETE,YOUR PARISHIONER #2.

BROTHER REALITY

IP: Logged

jlpblade
Wiseguy posted 11-18-2000 11:34 PM
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Can I receive membership for past good deeds (or idiotic behavior)? Many, many years ago I corrected a wager at Sacho's that was 100 times too big. My agent couldn't believe it, but if it was a dime turned into 100k, I'm not sure what I would have done - after I recovered consciousness.
Jeff

IP: Logged

REALITY
Wiseguy posted 11-18-2000 11:46 PM
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BROTHER BLADE,
WELCOME.

YOUR IN.

DO YOUR PENANCE FOR USING INDIVIDUALS REAL NAME AND SIN NO MORE...

BROTHER REALITY

pnanda
Wiseguy posted 11-19-2000 01:51 AM
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If it looks to good to be true, it usually is. As a bettor, one must realize this.IMHO, if a line mistake this obvious is made all bets should be voided.

REALITY
Wiseguy posted 11-19-2000 02:08 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by pnanda:
If it looks to good to be true, it usually is. As a bettor, one must realize this.IMHO, if a line mistake this obvious is made all bets should be voided.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PNANDA,

WELCOME TO THE CHURCH OF HONEST BETTING ETTIQUETE.

AS A CHARTER MEMBER YOU WILL WIN MORE GAMES BY A HALF POINT THAN YOU WILL LOSE.

SUDDENLY YOU ARE NO LONGER AFRAID OF EXTRA INNINGS AND OVERTIME.

AMEN,BROTHER.

BROTHER REALITY

freak
Wiseguy posted 11-19-2000 02:00 AM
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A difference of 36 points, and if one bets into that, they are trying to steal one from the book.
A honest player passes the game, or calls in the wager and says hey by the way on the net you have the line backwards.

I have done this numerous times, sometimes looking for a stipend, but not anymore. Reason being, one good turn will pay back numerous ones in the future.

Just the way I look at it anymore.

I can see the arguement, they hung the number make them pay.... Only person that will get hurt in the end is yourself. The bet more than likely will get scratched and depending on your wager style and what you attempted to do on that game if obvious will surely get you the pink slip....

Typos happen and errors do take place, but be smart and do the right thing.

See ya at the cashiers cage.....

With the correct ticket of course !!!


REALITY
Wiseguy posted 11-19-2000 02:11 AM
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BROTHER FREAK,

WELCOME.

YOU NOW LONGER HAVE TO FEAR THOSE LAST MINUTE PASS INTERFERENCE CALLS.

VIRTUE IS IT'S OWN REWARD.

AMEN.

BROTHER REALITY


Fred
Wiseguy posted 11-19-2000 03:04 AM
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with due respect to those who disagree
imho

-18 to +18 is an obvious error, (c'mon fellas, even +3 instead of -3 in say, an NBA game is an obvious error) i would be embarrased to bet it

+3 to +3.5, +4 or better, is shopping for value, i would be insane not to prefer a better genuine number

REALITY
Wiseguy posted 11-19-2000 03:25 AM
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BROTHER FRED,
WELCOME TO THE CHURCH OF HONEST BETTTING ETTIQUETE.

YOU SHALL WIN MORE OF THOSE BAIL OUT WAGERS THAN NOT.

BLESSED ARE THOSE WHO KNOW THE MEANING OF STEAL A DIME IT WILL COST YOU A DOLLAR.

BROTHER FRED,

ALL THE BEST...

BROTHER REALITY

wintermute
Wiseguy posted 11-19-2000 10:14 AM
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Brother REALITY. I read quickly thru the replies to your post and I don't think you've mentioned anywhere what you think the difference is between a line posted in error and a good line.
I wager predominantly on sports like baseball and hockey that use moneylines and my rules of thumb are:

1) for 20 cent lines there is no problem if the line is less than or equal to 10 cents off the average posted for that game over the 12 or so books that I bet at.

2) if the line is greater than 10 cents but less than or equal to 20 cents different from the average I'll try to scalp the game but will wait an hour or so to make sure that the book will let the wager stand before covering the other side

3) if there is a difference of greater than 20 cents I avoid it. Sometimes I'll tell the book but lately I've pretty much stopped doing that because a lot of the time the person at the other end doesn't seem to have a clue what I'm talking about.

To show you what I mean here is an email I sent to a book recently. The game was a pickem NHL game between Colorado and Phoenix. The book had Phoenix at +1.5 -130!!! Everone else had Phoenix at something like +0.5 -140.

From me:

NHL game between Colorado and Phoenix is way off.

Reply:

Greetings from -sportsbook-. We are always happy to hear from our customers. Please be so kind as to specify what exactly it is we can help you with, or feel free to call us at -phone number- and we will be more than happy to assist you.

Thank you for your time and preference.

Best Regards,
-name-
Customer Service

AS you can see, polite but brain dead.

As another example, another book posted hockey lines for at least a week that had the following format.

Team A +0.5 +100 Team B -0.5 +100.

I called them up and tried to persuade one of their people for at least 5 minutes that they weren't going to make a lot of money posting lines where both sides pay off at even money but to no avail.

Does anyone keep track of their employees anymore???

wintermute

REALITY
Wiseguy posted 11-19-2000 10:30 AM
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BROTHER MUTE,
YOU ARE FORMALLY A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH OF HONEST BETTING ETTIQUTE.

THERE ARE NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO REFUSE TO SEE...

IF YOU WERE KIND TO ENOUGH TO POINT OUT THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS AND THEY CONTINUED TO ERR,THEN CONSIDER IT A GIFT FROM ABOVE AND PARTAKE OF WHAT IS GIVEN...

THIS IS HIS WAY OF CLEANSING THE BRAIN DEAD FROM POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY.

IF HOWEVER YOU TAKE ADVANTAGE OF AN OBVIOUS GROSS ERROR IN THE LINE WITHOUT SUCH NOTIFICATION,IT IS WRITTEN:

BE WARY OF THY ROD AND STAFF...

PEACE BROTHER,

BROTHER REALITY

[This message has been edited by REALITY (edited 11-19-2000).]

REALITY
Wiseguy posted 11-19-2000 12:49 PM
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THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO BROTHER GORD:
A READING FROM THE BOOK OF HONESTY.

PROCEED BROTHER GORD>


Dear brethern: If thowest CONSTANTLY and SPECIFICALLY wagers into mistakes then thow should takest thine business elsewhere.

If thow thinkest there might be an error then a confirmation is necessary on thine readback and thow bet shall have honor.

Let no wager be cast aside after it has been graded

Forgive thy customers errors so that they might not hold ours against us

To those who remaineth unrepentant:
If thine bank deposits a large sum into your account....spendith thy unearned manna....
But please savest thow a quarter to calleth me and preach to me then.... on living with thine mistakes.

CAN I GET AN AMEN?

AMEN!

GO IN PEACE...

BROTHER REALITY

Ronbets
Wiseguy posted 11-19-2000 01:35 PM
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This is the most entertaining thread in a long time. You can tell by my off time that I prefer reading this over the mechanical NFL.
The main question here is how many of you born again gamblers attended services this weekend? If you did, how many of you selfishly prayed for monetary gains? 1-3-4-5.........

IP: Logged

REALITY
Wiseguy posted 11-19-2000 01:47 PM
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BROTHER RONBETS,
ASK NOT WHAT YOUR GOD CAN DO FOR YOU,

ASK WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR GOD...

AMEN!

BROTHER REALITY

THE DOORS TO THE CHURCH OF HONEST BETTING ETTIQUETTE ARE ALWAYS OPEN.

YOUR BROTHERS ARE WAITING TO WELCOME YOU WITH OPEN ARMS.

REPENT NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.

"BLESSED ARE THE HONEST BETTORS FOR THEIRS IS THE KINGDOM OF LATE COMEBACKS,EXTRA INNING AND OVERTIME WINS..."

CAN I GET AN AMEN?

AMEN!

THIS CONCLUDES THIS MORNINGS SERVICE.

GO IN PEACE...

BROTHER REALITY

[Railbird]

That last guy who posted is the enemy,lets lock and load,seek and destroy.

[Curious]

Just more of the same, old, tired, re-re-re-hashed crap that we always see posted by the biggest pro-BM poster around.

[Jeff]

No question you should take advantage of special offers, be it a bonus or some other special.

A player should also be taking advantage of the numbers.........a game is 4 across the board and you find 2.5 or 3, then you'd have to be an idiot not to bang the game for all you can.

Make no mistake about it, that's what being a player is all about.

Shouldn't matter whether you're a player, a scalper, whatever. Numbers are put on the board to be bet into!!

The only sticking point I have on this, is the bad line issue. I mean an obvious error. In that case, there has to be some honesty. We all make mistakes. What goes around comes around..........

[chestrockwells]

Whether to take every bonus, or press for referral bonuses is a personal issue and one that's been discussed here just recently. I personally have only gotten one referral bonus in 4 years. But that's my personal decision.It's not an issue of right or wrong. The purpose of my initial post was to hopefully negate a little of the "stench" that sometimes permeates here that essentially goes nearly as far as to infer that it is in our self interest to police ourselves as bettors. To have a group of, dare we say, above average bettors, feel "sorry" or "sympathetic" to a books woes, is just silly and self-defeating. I respect Reality, though I must say that his last post seemed to me like a long drawn out post about nothing. Divided loyalties is not that unusual or even bad.
And Jeff, I agree with most of what you said but I'll throw this one at you.
Last night, on the overnight lines I could get Pedro Martinez from -200 all the way to
-260......on 4 books at the exact same time, all of which are on the BW list.Pretty wide range wouldn't you say? Now, here's my question to you. Which one is the bad line? Are they all good lines? People come here and deal in generalities all the time. This is a specific one of a game that occurs today. So let's say, as an example, I could get -195 all the way to -265.........or
-190 all the way to -270. Who decides where the bad line is? I contend that given the support of some people here who "cut the books a lot of slack", to put it politely, that the book that had -200 or the one that had -260 could easily claim that it's a bad line. That's the problem with that whole "bad line" bs.

[Jeff]

I'd have to agree with you 100% as to "when is a bad line a bad line".

I've always argued that it should be made clear.......but then, not too long ago, there was a post that went into detail on just why it's essentially impossible to put parameters up for something like that......

And so the saga continues........

[Hartley]

A bad line is one where the line is CLEARLY a mistake.

Example:
Tampa Bay at Boston with Pedro pitching. The correct line is Boston -300 but the book puts it up as Tampa Bay -300. Obviously this is a bad line.

Another example (and I see this often).
Book has team A -8 1/2 points on the spread but +250 on the money line. Obviously this is a bad line. The team can't be favored on the spread but a dog on the money line.

Another example. Game is (say) Rice at Nebraska in NCAA football. Game is listed as Nebraska -42 points but the book puts it up as Rice -42. Obviously this is a mistake.

So should we feel sorry for them or have pity on them? Not necessarily but if you bet into a bad line expect to have the bet cancelled. If you report the error you'll probably get a small bonus. So which is better, taking the chance that they won't cancel the bet or taking the sure bonus?

Also, I don't consider the sportsbook my enemies just because I bet against them. I play cards with friends every once in a while and hope to take their money but I certainly don't consider them enemies.

[hart attack]

just keep in mind that the books feel really awful when a player goes off & dumps his account!

[chestrockwells]

Well gee Hartley. Thanks for stating the obvious. However I would bet serious money that the books don't have as clear a definition as you do on this matter. And I suppose, to put it plainly, that if the amount of money in question here is as trivial as the amount 99% of people win or lose to their "friends" in card games..........I for one would hardly be wasting my time even addressing the issue.

[reno]

The issue is not really that complicated. If a player is in doubt about a line being a mistake, he should call the book for clarification. I don't consider sportsbooks as "enemies." I consider them as partners that are offering me an incredible opportunity to make money. Therefore, I treat ethical, well-run books with respect.
Consequently, if a line is apparently a misake, I would never bet it without getting an OK from the book.

[chestrockwells]

Ring ring. Sports.
Hi, this is Reno. I was wondering if the -260 you guys have on the Boston Pedro Martinez game is accurate. I mean everyone has it at -210/-215 so I figured I'd call you guys up and see if it's ok to bet your limit on Seattle. Is that pretty much the gist of your conversation with them Reno? You know it strikes me as really interesting because a year or so ago I remember you relating stories of scalping games and having to make seemingly "split second" decisions. I must have missed it because I don't recall ever seing you mention that you had such time to do this "due diligence". I guess things have really evolved a lot for you. You've become such a model citizen and model bettor. I guess there's hope for us all huh?