BAN THE BAD LINE RULE!!!!

[hart attack]

i watched a championship game in the early -mid 80's where a georgetown player (freddie brown i think), passed a ball directly to a carolina player (james worthy). the game was at stake at the time, but the mistaken pass sealed the deal. it was a mistake! shouldn't it have been done over?

[ThomasV]

I believe that a book should be able to cancel an obviously wrong line, but should comp the player the amount that the juice was just in fairness and just in case they hedged somewhere else.

[TheMiddleMan]

Thomas ...didn't get that. If I had 5 dimes on teamA and 5 dimes on teamB and they cancelled my wager on teamA I could potentially lost 5dimes on teamB. Will the bookie comp me the 5 dimes I could lose....yeah right...its the same as eating the mistake. BAN THE BAD LINE RULE!! PERIOD

[Rich]

Reality-

The book that canceled my hockey wager is
A BWorld book and i only use them for
a certain thing they have that no one else
does why cut your nose to spite your face..

with both of your last posts it seems there
is agreement that at some point it needs to be honered or canceled where that point should be should be the questio maybe
a petition to the books here by bworld could
find common ground because this is one of the
few issues that is not fully covered by the rule books. Relity says 2.5 points i think
it should be a bit higher although he's right
about 50cents being the equivilent but I still think its possable for a line to be 29.5 one place and 27 at the next a bad line
rule should only be for really obvious errors
even if a bettor knows he's getting an off line 2.5 or 3 points to me is not enough
to call him a theif. betting into off lines
is part of the game but betting into typos
isnt maybe 4points and 60cents would be better from any point in the history of a line.

PS i called WSEX a few times when there line
was about 3 points off I was either given a
bad line reporting bonus or in one case allowed to be whatever i wanted before they
changed getting a nice middle gap knowing
i wasn't going to get a call back or email
after i bet the other side.

[Rich]

dragon if a book did that to me i would
be pissed too if the line didn't change or
it wasnt such a huge bet that they could honestly say they laid off action based
on your play - to me anytime the lines the same they should always let you switch to the other side (of coure if your not abusing
this)In addition most books again if you dont' abuse it will change the amount of the
bet if you mistakenly do to much if the lines the same. A few times i bet the game
at more than one book forgetting i had already bet the side i wanted in each case i was allowed to cancel after calling them almost immediatly

[aknorman]

TheMiddleMan-I think your situtation is very difficult to ACCURATELY analyze without you being more specific. Like, how long was it after you made the bet before the Book informed you that they voided your wager?

If it's not too much trouble, could you give the details without being specific as to the team names or the sportsbooks in question. Like, NBA Team A was playing Team B starting at 7:30 pm on Tuesday night. I bet $5,500 on Team A -7 at Book #1 at 6:55 pm. And, seven minutes later, I bet another $5,500 on Team B +12 at 7:02 pm with Book #2. Then, Book whatever canceled the bet etc., etc., etc.

I think that just like when is a bad line consided a bad line discussion that is going on here, one has to know the facts and circumstances to help decide when a bet has been properly voided. I would be pissed if it was my bet and this bet was cancelled after 9:45 pm on Tuesday (see my example above), since the game is most likey over at that time. This is obviously to the books advantage because they now know the impact of any bad line they may have posted.

However, if the Book cancelled the bet at 7:15 pm, then that could have given you some time to hedge yourself. Just take the $5,500 that was just voided and bet in on the same Team using the now supposed good line (assuming the good line does not place you in the position of losing both bets instead of just one). Therefore, the most this allegded bad line could have cost you was $500 (and not $5,500). Who knows, you may even win one and push on the other (assuming the two lines at both books are not the same after the book publishes their good line).

These sportsbooks know that people are middling these games. I think these books also have a responsilbility to cancel the bet in a reasonable amount of time. Also, they need to make whatever effort is necessary to inform a player that a wager has been voided BEFORE the game starts. Especially, for a guy betting $5,500 on the game. This gives the middling player the opportunity to miminize the impact of a cancelled bet because of an alledged bad line.

I'm not agreeing with either side at this time. I just would like to have accurate information before I decide. Thank you.

Also, I'm curious about something if you did give the accurate details. It might get someone who bet the other side and lost to say that their bet was not cancelled by this same sportsbook. That is, assuming the +12 in my above example was the alledged bad line and someone bet $110 on the favorite at -12. Did the book void this person's bet too? After all, most of us are squares (me included) and this does happen. That is, people betting the wrong way into a bad line.

You see what I'm getting at. Maybe the way to handle this situation is to publish the specifics in a open forum like this. Then, see if someone posts to say that their bet was not cancelled. This will help us to flush-out books that only cancel winning bets but not losing ones. I'm not suggesting that you post the specifis here. Altho, you may if you like.

I think all of us will agree that the books are in the superior position when it comes to situations like this. With cash in hand and them being a foreign country they can pretty much do as they like unless we, the customers, all stick together. After all, our government isn't going to help us recover any funds lost by gambling offshore. Or will they???-lol

[This message has been edited by aknorman (edited 03-30-2001).]

[cecil]

I think its true that the answer is very simple. It is not hard to post correct lines, sure maybe some books will have to hire another proof reader or two. We the players have the power, if a book often is voiding bad lines, stop playing there!!! There is no way we can all agree on a certain amount to say it is a bad line, cause it varies by the sport. If a book posts that all bets are final, then all bets are final? right??? Its time for us to simply stop playing at these often offending books!!! They are the true cheaters!

[DOGS THAT BARK]

One question:
Has anyone EVER had a wager voided in Vegas because they said it was a bad line?

[TheMiddleMan]

akanorman... It was a 5 point middle nba.
team A was -6 team b was + 11. 2 different books. I bet 5 dimes on each side. book A cancelled my bet leaving me sided. I placed my bet at about noonish. The cancellation email was at 4pm. Game time was 7:30pm. Sure there was enough time to hedge off....BUT I dont check my email (or at least not back then ;o) ) 100 times a day for the dreaded cancellation notice. I got other things to do. Thats the problem. I'm not a 24 hour business. I'm just a customer who placed a bet..got a readback thinking that all readbacks were final.. and thats it. This whole topic of banning the bad line rule affects me the middler the most. I admit I am the minority of sports bettors. A void wager for a guy bettin sides is no loss. For me its drastic. Just put yourself in my shoes. I'm not a crook a theif as everyone is calling me out here. I don't need to capitalize on bookies errors to make money bettin middles.I just need a very small difference in two bookies lines due to movement or a bookie having heavy action on one side. HOWEVER, when I bet a 4 or 5 point middle, I'm now checkin my email periodically hoping that dreaded void doesn't hit me. To me that BS at its finest. For me TheMiddleMan and for all other middlers out there that bet their middles and want to be done with it...this bad line rule must be banned. If not banned then the error cutoff for badlines must be pretty high. People out here suggesting 4 and 5 point error cutoffs are indirectly taking a big piece of my pie. And then reality is saying that a 2.5 cutoff is good. Damn if that were to happen I'd be out of buisness. I am against having cutoffs completely and think that the bad line rule should be banned. BUT if cutoffs were placed, they need to be pretty high. 11 points on spreads (error for 156 165) and $1 on money. My other thought was that the cutoff should be the amount of the maximum movement (from when the line goes up to game time)in the history of lines. This to me is fair as it will differentiate an erroneous line from just plain movement. It will protect the bookie from a +105 dog and a +1050 dog due to a typo. These are the errors we should never hold the book liable for. BOTTOM LINE IS WE CAN NOT LEAVE THIS DISTINCTION IN THE BOOKMAKERS HANDS. Then I could bet my 4 and 5 point middles and any other middle for that matter up to that cutoff without having to check my email 100 times a day. I know the number is high but what is the max movement in the history of lines?

[ChuckyTheGoat]

MiddleMan, how can you say 11 points would be a reasonable cutoff?

Have to agree w/ Reality on that one. A middle on a line that far off is truly no different than stealing.

I do believe the suggested cutoffs of 50-cents or 5pts were reasonable.

GL all.

[REALITY]

MIDDLEMAN,

TWO POINTS:

A.IF YOU DON'T BET BAD LINES,AND YOU KNOW WHEN YOUR BETTING THEM,YOU WON'T HAVE TO BE PREOCCUPIED WITH YOUR E-MAIL.

B.WHERE ARE THE POSTS FOR ALL THE B.M'S YOU CONFERED WITH THAT WERE GOING TO GO ON RECORD IN THESE FORUMS THAT THEY WERE GOING TO HONOR 5 DIME MIS-POSTED LINES?

I GUESS THEY DON'T WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS GREAT MARKETING OPPORTUNITY.

UNDER 1.5 POSTS WAS THE WINNER...

REALITY

[gooden]

This again!

TheMiddleMan, in contract law, material mistakes bar enforcement of contracts (generally speaking, of course).

A bet is a contract. A sportsbook should be allowed to take action comparable to some form of legal recourse, because such matters obviously cannot be brought in court.

Cheating is cheating. If a line is obviously bad, and one bets into it, that is cheating in any capacity, whether legal or gambling.

Cheating is wrong (it is... news at 11). That's why the law simply does not allow it.

Also, please don't tell me that this is gambling, and not a courtroom. With that logic, you further the stigma of the gambling industry as some Wild West, every-man-for-himself societal outcast. With regulation, honesty, and class comes mainstream regulation and respect.

Of course, the sportsbooks need to do their part, but that doesn't mean that the player should not assume some responsibility in improving the industry's perception.

Okay, time to go drinking, snort coke, and have sex with 2 transsexual one-legged hookers...