**Referral Bonuses** **sportsbooks please read**

[Jeff]

A recent trend was uncovered that was actually kind of disturbing. It's the use of some of these forums to recruit referral bonuses.

While many may think this is harmless, and are sincere in their efforts, still others are 100% aware yet still take advantage.

This practice essentially makes the sportsbook pay twice for the same customer. They pay to advertise on the different websites and then they have to fork out a referral bonus to the guy who claims to have referred the player.

This practice is dishonest, and not fair to the sportsbooks, or those that operate forums like this one, that give the player a voice that reaches far and wide in the offshore industry.

Sportsbooks ought to consider doing away with these bonuses. They are being abused.

Everyone wants this industry to be a safe one, and one where players get paid. However, when bonuses get out of control, and sportsbooks end up paying double to get one customer, it won't be long before there's trouble, and this practice will have contributed to that.

Referrals are meant for players to refer their friends. Not for players to recruit and refer strangers at the expense of others.

I hope those that practice this will take a closer look at the effect this has, and I hope the Sportsbooks also take a closer look at just how this is costing them.

Bonuses are ruining this industry.

[Jeff]

The Devil
MP
Posts: 2983
Registered: Jun 2000
posted 03-27-2001 08:30 PM
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Referral bonuses are given by sportsbooks to attract friends, relatives etc. from existing customers......
Sportsbooks spend advertising dollars on sites like Major Wager,Bettorsworld and The RX to attract other customers....new customers.....

Now if some Joe is a friend of yours and you know he is looking to sign up with a book and you say...sign up with book X and say Joe sent you....then you should be entitled to the referral bonus...

However if you see someone on our forums asking about a book, I think it is improper to try to steal a referral bonus by asking that person to say that you referred them....

The reason being....the book is paying us to advertise....our job is to send them players....

When we send a book a player...we do our job....when someone comes to our forum and signs up with a book...and gives the other forum members name....the book pays twice....
it pays the referral and the advertiser....that isn't fair....

This was brought up to me from another forum operator and a book that had a few sign-ups where the customers used the same name as their posting names....but were not referred by Major Wager...rather than another poster...

Now I don't want to stop the practice of having posters place their email address on the forum so others can get in touch...but I can see where others will try to line their pockets at others expense....

I don't know how to stop this at the present time.....But I don't think it's fair to the books or the forum....

The Devil



[This message has been edited by Jeff (edited 03-27-2001).]

[rama]

I always wondered about this. If this site is the cause of a referral, but it is passed onto a forum member instead then the sites are getting screwed in this. Their power is lessened as their referral is passed onto someone else. Books rely on the mention of BW or other sites as a referral to realize if their advertising dollars are at work. If they are not mentioned someone else gets credit improperly. From a gambler's view, it is much more cool to pass the bonus onto another poster or split it with someone. Ultimately unfair to the sites that are directing posters there.

[Jeff]

Right, but the sites are not the only ones getting the shaft here. More importantly, the books are getting burned by their own bonus program.

Think about it. A guy hears about this site or one of the others from an ad someplace, he comes in looking for info on some books.

Joe the bonus hunter jumps down on the guy like a vulture on road kill, and says hey, I can help you out, email me.

Now the guy posts up with the book and says Joe sent him. The book pays Joe his referal. The book pays the guy his sign up bonus, (not to mention he gets half of the referal from Joe) and the book pays the website.

It's wrong.

[This message has been edited by Jeff (edited 03-27-2001).]

[underdog]

Jeff,

Your right, its wrong. There are some well known posters who have been doing it for years.

[underdog]

Best thing would be for books to get together and "blacklist" the abusers. Ban them altogether. They are thieves and should be treated as such.

[Hartley]

I think it depends how you look at it. IMO, the bonus is a thank you from the book to an individual for taking the time to market the book to a new customer. I read someplace that a book will spend over $200 for each new customer it gets. So a $50 referral bonus (which usually has a lot of strings attached before you can cash it in) is pretty good.

I know for example I've received 2 referral bonuses in 3 years from WSEX and 2 from Intertops over a longer period. But in each case I'd spend quite a bit of effort to convince a person why the book was right for them and going into detail on how interactives work at WSEX, what various bets mean at Intertops etc. If time is money then it's a fair deal for everyone.

I agree, however, that someone saying "hey Joe I hear you're planning to sign up at xyz sportsbook so use me as a referral" is wrong. As is taking any credit for work you don't do. Recently someone e-mailed me for my account info. at Unitedbet because they wanted to use me as a referral. Since I really did no work in convincing them to sign there, I thanked them but declined the bonus.

But as I said I don't think the referral bonuses in general are a bad idea for the books. In fact it can be a very cheap form of marketing and p.r.

[Frank]

All bonuses and referal bonuses should be done away with. This reminds me of the Boomer fiasco using beards to collect bonus money. Bonus money and referral bonuses are always going to attract the leaches. There will always be someone trying to take advantage of books in some way.

Like Underdog7 said across the street, they aren't always a means to be greedy. He is the exception to the rule though.

I don't think there is an easy way to defer this. Its sorta like in Vegas. You know NONE of the casinos want sportsbooks anymore, but they don't want the fish from the casino going somewhere else to place their sports bets.

I beleive that asking people in these forums will help a little. The true players that read the forums daily may think twice and try to help the books rid of this problem. The casual vultures, though, will never quit trying to get the last dime they can get.

I know it is a marketing ploy but until every last book decides to quit offering bonuses and referral bonuses it will probably never stop.

[dragonboy]

Jeff,

I agree and disagree on your stance regarding referral bonuses. I do believe
that it's wrong if you post on this forum and your main objective is to leech referral bonuses by sending or posting your email address to new players wishing to start an account. However, I do believe that if you advocate and truly support a book, it is not wrong if you receive a referral bonus through your recommendation. If you played with a book and had nothing but a solid experience with them, I truly don't think it's wrong if you primarily point out this book to a player on this forum that is looking for a new book. There are a zillion books out there to choose from, but if you take the time to post a good write up on why you like a certain book, I don't see how this is different from advertising . As a matter of fact, I think this type of advertising is truer for the players because you are getting a sraight honest opinion. I don't go posting all over bettorsworld and look for a new account candidate, but I do answer posts from players that look for a solid book and usually recommend 1 book that I've had a great experience with. In my history of playing with online sports the last 4 years, I never got a referral bonus from a player on this forum. The only referral bonuses I've ever gotten was from friends. However, I have taken out the time to recommend some solid books on this forum. Did that player decide on that book through my recommendation? Maybe or maybe not....but I know that it did'nt hurt. I am positive though that there have been many instances where a player did decide on a book through a recommendation on this forum and I can't see a more effective advertising than that.

[Jeff]

No.

The "truer" form of advertising, is the player that comes in and gives his opinion because he wants to, not because there's a referral attached to it.

The forums across the net have become a breeding ground for this activity.

We'd rather not give detailed examples.

Those that wish to do this, should spend some money, create a web presence, and promote their favorite book until the cows come home.

Forums like this should be used for their intended purposes, by players, to make the industry a safer place for everyone by sharing their experiences.

Forums like this one have been of great service to players, in this particular case, for over 5 years.

That shouldn't be abused or taken advantage of.

This is a FREE site. Visitors aren't charged to access the information on this site, or to participate in the contests.

Those most upset by this statement, are those that will no longer be able to practice their trade here.

[dragonboy]

Here is a recent experience I'd like to share on this topic:

About a week or two ago, I was looking for a solid book in Curacao to post up. I've mainly only played with Antigua and Costa Rica books for the last few years and wanted to give Curacao a try. I posted a topic on Bettorsworld asking opinions on Curacao books. Through recommendations on this forum, I decided on Top of the World. I posted a little over 2 dimes on my initial deposit. At the time when I posted my money, I totally forgot about the person who recommended me to Top World. I was away from a computer and did not get a chance to ask for his email. In all honesty, I posted up with Top World because of the recommendation of this person, whom I thought was one of the more honest members of bettorsworld. This was $200 referral money that should have gone to that person because I honestly decided on this book because of his recommendation. But because I forgot, Top World saved $200. Honestly, I think the person recommending a book on this forum is more times than not forgotten by the time the new account guy sends his money to the new book. I think that more than half of the time, books are getting effective advertising through recommendations from posters on this forum. In retrospect, in some shape or form, the referral bonuses balance out.

[bgeorgia]

In addition, sites like bettorsworld spends thousands cultivating what they know are the best books.
when does a player that is looking for a new book "realize" WHEN and WHICH people to believe?
When does bettorsworld know this or know when they are being pointed in the right direction?
we certainly cannot tell when a post says simply "email me at joe@xyz.com.

now we have a person who came to bettorsworld looking for the book knowing they are on a website that is respected for choosing good books. the newbie might say

"well i guess this book is good because this unknown guy is on bettorsworld".

does not work. we believe in our past record as it is as close to impeccable as you can be in this industry. we do not leave it to unknown.
forum members are not guaranteed sportsbooks experts. many are looking for a reward at the possible cost of someone they know nothing about.
bettorsworld will not and cannot police this activity. therefore we choose to disallow it in the best interests of bworld and the new player.

bg

[krackman]

I rarely get involved in referral bonuses because the person I recommend to a book usually deposits a low amount and its not worth the effort sometimes to get pennies. BUT....I have taken my share of up front bonuses and an occasional referral bonus one in peticular I remember went like this a big sports better called me and asked me how good such and such a book was they read on bettorsworld and rx how good they were but asked me my opinion and I told him they were solid. He deposited 50k and the book gladly gave me 5k. So what do you guys think YOU SHOULD GET THE CREDIT? You guys get thousands a month from these sportsbook owners to praise them. A sportsbetter wants solid proof from posters who have had transactions going back and forth,customer service,and info on bet limits and such. Thats where your posters come in LIKE ME and give our opinions and THAT SELLS THEM ALOT MORE THEN READING APPROVALS FROM WEBSITES LIKE YOURS WHO ARE GETTING PAID TO PROMOTE THAT BOOK. And another thing bettorsworld unlike rx and mw NEVER comes on here defending the players when we have something bad to say about a book I never read "we will check into this for you"

Hey, I am not trying to be a troublemaker here because bettorsworld is the first site I started visiting when I learned how to use a computer. And we can agree to disagree I actually do that a lot (-:

[bgeorgia]

krackman,

this is a very simple equation. bettorsworld spends in the hundreds of thousand of dollars in costs of maintaining a web site, advertising and web content.
we now have people simply coming in here and posting joe@xyz.com
this is reply to a question by a p[oster who is looking for another book to play with. there is no commentary or at least none without a email me at.....
thats fine. but not here. and as far as how much we make or don't make that is none of yours or anybody elses business. we are a business, not a godamm breeding ground for referral vermin that come into here and rape us on what we have paid so much to cultivate.
you want to get referral bonuses? go top rec.gambling.sports. DON'T come in here to get them.
we don't want you if that is why you are here. this has become an epidemic and we believe a semi-sophisticated group that plays outside the lines to pillage the books and web sites like bettorsworld.
do the books pay us? yes. do we pay the price if they fail? yes. does the referral weasel pay any price when things go sour? no. do they know most of the players they referred other than by email name? NO
who is at risk here?
1) bworld
2) the unknowing player
3) the sportsbook.

this was a promotion that had good intentions but because of a group of people who attemp to beat any and all systems, promos etc..have ruined it for everybody.
after a thorough review of posts dating back to '99, it is now very clear that referral weasels layed in wait in the fertile posting grounds of bettorsworld to get their bonus.

there is no one who can argue with these [b]facts[b].
Its just so simple to understand.

brian

[Jeff]

Never defend players?

That's a moronic statement if I ever heard one.

We just don't come in here and beat our chests everytime we help a player behind the scenes.

Maybe you'd appreciate us more if we pissed on you and told you it was raining.