NBA team in Vegas- Final nail in coffin??

[Jeff]

Imagine if the Grizzlies end up in Vegas, as the good Mayor Oscar Goodman hopes? On top of that, the college betting ban also goes thru? That would pretty much be the final nail in the coffin in Vegas wouldn't it?

Imagine this time of year. No NBA, No March madness.

Very sad...........

[Dragon]

Maybe they would allow wagering on local pro teams the way they now allow wagering on the local colleges???

[Fendy]

I believe I read in LVRJ last time the mayor went looking for a team that the NBA not the state has some kind of ruling about they will not allow betting on a team if it is in Vegas. Is this true?

[This message has been edited by Fendy (edited 03-04-2001).]

[8thpole]

It must be law because when they same company who owned Madison Square Garden and the Knicks bought Caesars Palace, Ceasear's couldnt book NBA. The Maloofs who owned a casino and the SAC. Kings didn't take NBA action in their book either.

[Jeff]

Mayor: LV top choice of NBA owner
By Diana Sahagun
and David Strow

LAS VEGAS SUN

If the gaming industry is willing to play ball, Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman says the NBA's Vancouver Grizzlies could be on their way here.

But it's going to be a tough sell, as Nevada's top gaming regulator said Thursday he's not prepared to support Goodman's proposed betting ban compromise with the NBA.

Following recent meetings with Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley, Goodman said Thursday that Las Vegas' chances at landing the Grizzlies are far better than many critics think.

"Our discussions would indicate that Las Vegas is the No. 1 choice for the Grizzlies," Goodman said. "We're seriously discussing Las Vegas being the home for the Grizzlies. These are not like discussions that have taken place in the past, with Las Vegas possibly being used as a chip."

Heisely, a Chicago businessman who paid $160 million to buy the Grizzlies in 1999, has also met with officials from St. Louis, New York, Nashville, Tenn., and Louisville, Ky.

Goodman would not elaborate on their conversations, but said the two discussed the need for a downtown arena to house the team if it were to relocate in Las Vegas.

The city earlier this year secured a long-sought 61-acre parcel downtown that could be home to an arena, performing arts center, or other projects designed to draw people to the downtown area.

Monday is the deadline for developers to submit proposals to the city for projects for the 61 acres, but Goodman said he would extend the deadline for Heisley if an arena were brought into the picture.

"A downtown arena will be the least of our problems," Goodman said.

Goodman faces one huge hurdle in landing the Grizzlies, however -- the NBA's repeated insistence that it will not allow a team to play in Las Vegas so long as the city's sports books take bets on NBA teams.

But Goodman believes a compromise could be possible. He proposed an NBA version of the "UNLV rule" -- a rule that would permit bets on all NBA teams except a Las Vegas team. Just weeks ago Nevada repealed a long-standing ban against betting on Nevada college teams.

"I think if we can get the old UNLV rule that we are on the way to getting a basketball team," he said.

That would be a stark departure from the NBA's hard-line anti-gambling stance of the past. The league forced the Canadian provinces of British Columbia and Ontario to ban such bets before it agreed to award each a franchise.

Goodman said that the next 30 days are critical and that he will meet with representatives from the Nevada Gaming Commission, Thomas & Mack Center and others to try to ease their stance. He hopes to have a betting proposal in hand when he meets with the commission this month.

There are two ways such a ban could be implemented -- one, by a vote of the five-member gaming commission; or two, through a bill passed by the state Legislature.

But Brian Sandoval, chairman of the Nevada Gaming Commission, says he's not prepared to support it.

"I wouldn't be inclined to allow an exception for (a Las Vegas team)," Sandoval said. "I would like the opportunity to sit down with representatives of the city and the NBA to explain to them that a ban or compromise might have the opposite effect that they intend. It would create a market (for illegal betting) where one does not exist."

This argument was used by Sandoval in January, as he pushed the repeal of the UNLV rule. This move angered the NCAA, which is backing a bill in Congress that would ban college betting altogether. That bill is expected to be introduced later this month.

Implementing a new "UNLV rule" could be politically damaging, Sandoval said.

"At a minimum, it would be contradictory," Sandoval said. "We lifted the ban because we wanted to protect our athletes from illegal betting."

If such a ban were implemented, it also would force the sports books to stop taking futures bets on the NBA championship.

Harrah's Entertainment Inc. also indicated it wouldn't support Goodman's proposal, calling it "a dangerous precedent."

"I don't see any sense in taking a step backward when the gaming industry is facing attacks from zealots, as if there was something wrong with wagering on a professional sporting event," said Harrah's spokesman Gary Thompson. "To encourage illegal bookmaking seems to me to be a short-sighted solution to what is really not a major problem. We're trying to avoid having the gaming industry attacked piece by piece by people who have other agendas."

Casino observer Anthony Curtis, publisher of the Las Vegas Advisor newsletter, said gaming could face a backlash from Las Vegans if it digs in its heels on the betting issue.

"I'd be stunned if that was all that was required of the books and they didn't say, 'Sure,' " Curtis said. "They'd sound greedy. That should remove any road blocks if that (a ban on betting on a Las Vegas team) is all they're asking for."

Curtis disagreed that such a move could be viewed as hypocritical.

"It's a concession that had to be made in a bargain ... that's a different thing," Curtis said.

Vic Salerno is chief executive of American Wagering Inc., the owner of the Leroy's sports book chain. Salerno said he's willing to go along with Goodman, although he doesn't see much sense in the proposal.

"I don't see why there's any reason for not accepting them (bets on a local team)," Salerno said. "We wouldn't have any problems. But if that's what they want, I wouldn't want to be the one standing in the way of having a team."

Gaming companies might not stand in the way, but it will be tough to get them to become full-fledged boosters of Goodman's proposal, said Shannon Bybee, executive director of UNLV's International Gaming Institute.

"I'm not sure they see much benefit (to professional sports)," Bybee said. "There's certainly a benefit for Oscar if he can get it. (But) someone needs to take a hard look at the economic impact."

[underdog]

It really does not matter if vegas bans ncaa or anything really. At this point in time vegas is a non-factor in betting industry.

[Jeff]

Right.....it doesn't really matter to anyone living outside of Vegas, or even in Vegas actually.

I only bring it up for it's historical relevance.

Vegas played such a major role in the growth of sportsbetting and for years was THE heartbeat of the sports wagering world.

[azbob]

I know the historical significance is important but there will also be a bottom line impact.

The take from the books is not a large percent of the overall house profit but, the players who come to vegas because of a big weekend of sports betting (breeders cup, super bowl, any NCAA/NFL football weekend, Final Four, etc) are not JUST betting their sport.

During the rest of the day they or their wives/friends are playing other games and dropping potentially leaving alot of dollars on the table.

When I go up during football season, the cabbies always talk about how COMDEX attendees are not big gamblers, the Rodeo Finals attendees are not big gamblers, etc but, you can bet that every person going to sit in the book and play his sports plays is also going to be hitting the tables during their stay.

[Hartley]

Unless the NBA has changed their stance greatly then simply disallowing betting on a Las Vegas team will not be enough. When Toronto were vying for the Raptors the NBA were going to veto the deal because they found out that Ontario had a sports lottery which allowed wagering on basketball. The Ontario government said they would leave games involving the Raptors off the ticket but Stern said it wasn't enough. Eventually they worked out a deal where the NBA paid the Ontario goverment $2,000,000 to take NBA basketball off the lottery.

Of course don't be surprised if the league's view on gambling has changed. I'll be putting up an article shortly which may show that major league sports leagues are changing their viewpoints on gambling.

[Jeff]

Casino industry leaders are worried that Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman's push to bring the Vancouver Grizzlies to town will hurt a key political fight in Washington.

Just the talk of landing the struggling National Basketball Association franchise is creating disharmony on the home front in the Herculean battle against a ban on college sports betting in Nevada, the industry executives said.

The NBA has made it clear that any move by the Grizzlies here would require a voluntary betting ban on all NBA games, or at least on all Grizzlies games.

Gaming leaders say that would place the casino industry and Nevada's congressional delegation in a position of looking hypocritical in the eyes of the NCAA, which is spearheading the college betting ban.

State gaming regulators recently lifted a longtime betting prohibition on UNLV and University of Nevada, Reno, games as part of the fight in Washington to save college wagering here from the clutches of the NCAA.

An angry Goodman this morning fired back at his influential critics, saying they have an obligation to be good citizens and help him woo the Grizzlies.

"Shame on them, if they don't help me," Goodman said. "I have enough of an uphill battle from the Grizzlies and the NBA. I don't need it from the community leaders. If they love Las Vegas the way I do, than they should support us."

Publicly, the congressional delegation is staying mum on the subject, and several well-placed casino industry sources interviewed did not want to be identified.

But one key Nevada source on Capitol Hill said Goodman's efforts on behalf of Grizzlies owner Michael Heisley are cutting into the delegation's strategy against the NCAA and its allies in Washington. The delegation recently introduced a bill to study illegal sports betting around the country to counter the NCAA's offensive in the Silver State.

Top casino executives are in Washington this week to meet with congressional members from other states to rally support for the Nevada bill.

"Getting the Grizzlies to come to Las Vegas is a real long-shot and fraught with with some very dangerous political mines," the Nevada delegation source said. "The mayor has good intentions, and he's trying to improve downtown and the city as a whole. But he's not really thinking in terms of the big picture and how this will affect other national fights."

NCAA officials appear to be sitting back and letting Nevadans air out their differences over Goodman's NBA campaign.

"We're certainly monitoring the mayor's comments and the casino industry's responses," said Bill Saum, the NCAA's director of agents and gambling.

Saum, who testified at the Nevada Legislature last week, said his organization continues to maintain that it's "inappropriate" to wager on all professional and college athletic events.

"We don't really worry about the opposition," he said. "We have to do the right thing, and we have to get our points across, which we did in Carson City last week. Whatever action the casino industry takes, we'll just leave it to them. What's right will prevail here."

Nevada regulators and gaming executives have come out opposed to implementing any voluntary betting ban on NBA games.

Some within the hierarchy of the industry already are calling Goodman's push for the Grizzlies "dead on arrival."

Industry leaders are upset with Goodman for not giving them notice before announcing at his weekly news conference Thursday that Heisley considered Las Vegas his No. 1 choice to move.

"Nobody knows what the proposal is,"one ranking casino insider said. "The mayor never works to build a consensus. He just goes off half-cocked on these things. He could use his time more productively by solving the city's traffic congestion and try to help the schools in this community."

Goodman said his meeting with Heisley came up too fast for him to consult with casino leaders.

"I'm not asking for too much," he said. "This is good for the city. I'm not the one who will have a guilty conscious if this doesn't happen. That's for sure."

Goodman has one unlikely defender in the Rev. Tom Grey, a leading national critic of the casino industry.

Grey, executive director of the National Coalition Against Gambling, said an NBA franchise would enhance the city's image and be good for local residents.

But he added he doesn't see the casino industry ever giving in to Goodman on this issue.

"They've always talked about diversifying Las Vegas, but when push comes to shove, it's the bottom line," he said. "If you remove any sports betting, it hurts the casino industry's bottom line."

Grey agreed with Nevada leaders that talk of the Grizzlies coming to Las Vegas is hurting the state's battle with the NCAA.

"They better sing in unison, not harmony," Grey said. "To have Goodman come in and sing a discordant note is not what the industry wants. He's not on the same page of music, and they know that they are in a vulnerable position right now."

Casino executives said there are too many practical questions about the Grizzlies move.

"I don't know anyone in the industry who's wildly enthusiastic about bringing an NBA team here," one executive said. "We don't bring customers here to send them to NBA games. We bring them here to gamble."

[azbob]

Hartley....I think the atmosphere and clout of the NBA is much weakened now versus when Toronto and Vancouver came online.

After all, they were new franchises and now we are talking about moving a failing one. The NBA cannot be so choosy anymore and certainly cannot dictate terms to the extent they did in those "glory years."

Sooner or later you will see some major league sport simply dissovle a franchise rather than moving it because there will not be enough viable bidders stictly from a pro forma analysis of the potential.

For instance in MLB, Kansas City, Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Montreal are all having trouble because of the small-market issues.

Well, what large market are you going to move anyone of those teams to? You may move them to a "growing" market, but they are going to face the same hardships (without the infrastructure) as the current team location.

Then again, there is always some weasels who are willing to foot the bills with taxpayer money and who will be profitable for the first few years until the novelty wears off.

This was the case with Colangelo in AZ with the D-Backs. Their financial (and on the field) misfortunate may drag the Suns down with them especially now that they will be losing the home dates in the arena for the Coyotes.

[Kevin]

Attn govt:

Just make it all legal and we'll pay a flat tax