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**guidoS** · 12-12-2000, 11:45 PM

BROTHER REALITY
thanx for passing on info that must have instigated the legendary reno-REALITY wars. my life, pitiful and thankless as that may be, has still not allowed me to investigate that epic battle of wits! but methinks u2 are too hard on socceroo! he only came into this forum with a story about maltreatment in another forum, and if he did mention any names, they were appropriately censored by this site administrator. but then this same administrator impugns socceroo's intentions which can not possibly be known by that administrator. and then the thread is closed to stop anymore discussion of the topic! DAMMIT!!! doesnt anyone else care about freedom of speech? this forum is worthless if we cant discuss topics that interest and pertain to us! i'm about ready to grab my musket and pitchfork and march on... where exactly in the caribbean am i going? guidoS

**Socceroo** · 12-14-2000, 08:35 AM

REALITY � Sorry for the delay in responding, I�ve had server problems. I take your point about the way some people may feel about this or any other issue. You have to remember that people see things in different ways and we must respect other people�s views. It does not mean that we have to buy into them and make them our own views. Your article was enlightening although obviously without all the background it is impossible to fully put it into context but I get the gist and thank you for taking the time to dig it out for me.

I suppose the thing that I was trying to highlight; and in fact has been highlighted in these posts; is the sense of injustice that I feel about the way these forums deal with issues. Threads are edited and pulled without valid reasons and the only logic that I can see behind it is because it affects either their friends or their sponsors. I have read many posts in this forum where people�s names have been mentioned, you mentioned Jay Cohens name, Gary Kaplans name was mentioned in connection with a long article about NASA sports. This article was totally unsubstantiated in the post and ended with �don�t send money to them, and if you have pull it out�. Surly this warranted some type of censorship.

I do not like censorship, but will tolerate it if it is done in a fair and even-handed way, I do not buy the selective censorship operated by these gambling forums. The guy that I was talking about is working in a country where his profession is totally legal, and the people in the forum were using his name anyway, I did not feel as though I was committing a heinous crime. As for respect, well it is a 2-way thing, when he shows respect for the players of this industry then it will be reciprocated.

I feel it is more important to respect peoples views, their right to challenge injustices and push back barriers that impinge on their civil liberties. What is the difference between printing the truth in a newspaper or magazine article or posting it on a web board, surely the truth is the truth. Jeff keeps rattling on about being hauled into court, I would be very interested in hearing about the instances where a gambling forum has been prosecuted for printing the truth. I would not post anything that I could not verify and I am not a sensationalist yet my posts are still being locked out. I have my suspicions about why but I cannot even post them for fear of being banned from the forum altogether.

Anyway, Kudos to RX, I received an e-mail from the Shrink letting me know that my posting privileges had been reinstated, although I have not yet had an explanation as to why it happened but I thank you for shedding at least some light on it for me.

**Socceroo** · 12-14-2000, 08:39 AM

Guido S � Thanks for your comments, I do appreciate them and agree that you are not defending myself personally but defending the rights that our fathers and forefathers have fought and died for. I know that sounds a bit dramatic but it is the way I feel and I am sure other people feel the same. I would have responded to you in the other threads about censorship but they have all been censored and shut down. That was a great move and really served to prove the point better than anything that you or I could have said or done.

I have been in contact with Jeff on a couple of occasions to try to verify what I have posted, all he seems interested in is whether I have any evidence of slow pay. I am not particularly interested in slow pay, I am more interested in the way certain companies and individuals are operating within this industry of which I have tons of verification. If anybody else had this information I would fully expect them to post it. Jeff seems to want nothing short of video evidence. He has insulted me and even threatened me on the forum �all the things that he is supposedly against � but when I challenge him to carry out his threat, it goes quiet and the thread is locked. Why?

Why would someone that runs an Internet forum want to discuss a topic off the site, surely the whole point of these places is to gather the facts and opinions of people that are involved in the betting industry. I have given Jeff lots of information already he needs to be more specific and tell me exactly what he wants. When or if the whole truth does come out Herr Oberleiutnant Jeff and his comerades are going to look pretty silly in their true colors, I had better not say any more because I can hear the jingle jangle of padlock keys in the distance.

But thanks again for your comments.

**Jeff** · 12-14-2000, 08:50 AM

The truth according to who? We are simply supossed to take YOUR word for it? Give me a break. You can't possibly be that ignorant. You must be yanking my chain.

Once again, the offer is extended. You can reach me any time, and can prove your allegations. The offer has been on the table for two weeks or more. Where is socceroo?

But yet, go ahead and take pot shots while hiding behind a username.

It's people like you, that do a grave injustice to this industry.

It's very easy for a mouse like you, to hide behind a username, and criticize us.

Sit back and cry about censorship. A simple solution to your censorship problem would be to prove to me, your allegations. You would think a high and mighty individual like yourself would do so.

You lose more and more credibility with each bitch and moan.

**Jeff** · 12-14-2000, 09:15 AM

You're right.....I care about slow pay, because that is the most serious allegation you made. Video evidence? Hardly. Simply put me in touch with the players that are being slow paid. You do that, and you and I can both post it all over these forums.

I really don't care that a company has disgruntled, bitter employees and or ex employees. Show me a company that doesn't.

That is not what this forum is for.

The only info you have given me, is "someone told me". Not good enough.

**bgeorgia** · 12-14-2000, 09:46 AM

Socceroo,

give me a break. the mistake people like you contantly make is believing that "freedom of speech" is a right in anybody's house at anytime. Just like Sears, KAMRT or any other "store" Bettorsworld too is a store of sorts. When a malcontent wanders in looking for a place to hammer on a book that they personally have a strong dislike for then vision is skewed. Socceroo appears to be such an indivdual. He offers no information as requested by jeff but instead wants to use the forum so he can yell ut over some injustice he believes was done to him-yet again will provide the details as requested.

Your kudos to RX is a joke right? remember, there is an individual that has legitimate complaint against NASA. shrink shut down all replies questions. Is that ok with YOU? same thing right?
Forward all complaints to VP Gore-He invented the Net so he would be the guy to help you.
I have the keys so this thread will close.

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