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THE REALITY OF BOOKMAKING...

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  • #1

    THE REALITY OF BOOKMAKING...

    PREVIOUSLY POSTED BY REALITY:

    WISEGUY CLEARING HOUSES LIKE C.R.I.S.,OLYMPIC,AND GRANDE ARE THRILLED TO WIN BETWEEN 1 AND 2% OF THEIR HANDLE.

    BIG POST UP STORES LIKE TO WIN BETWEEN 3 AND 5% OF THE HANDLE.

    11/10 IS A LOT BIGGER IN THE POST UP SHOPS, WHERE THE EXPOSURE IN THE LINE DOES NOT EAT UP THE BOTTOM LINE AS IT DOES IN THE BIG CLEARING HOUSES WHO BY VIRTUE OF POSTING THEIR LINES FIRST WRITE MORE VOLUME BUT ALSO
    HAVE MORE EXPOSURE.

    IN THE END THE BIG CLEARING HOUSES HAVE A HOUSE SALAD.

    THE BIG POST UP HOUSES HAVE A CAESAR'S SALAD WITH A GRILLED CHICKEN BREAST ON TOP.

    THIS COMPARISON BECOMES EVEN MORE PRONOUNCED DURING A BAD SEASON.

    THIS FOOTBALL SEASON IS A BAD SEASON...

    REALITY

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  • #2
    to Reality:

    It's hard not to respect your knowledge of the bookmaking industry. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

    (1) My favorite book is Olympic. They are usually one of the first up with the line
    and they have great prop bets. Can't beat them. Question is....I always thought that the first book(s) up with the line took the most exposure and the most volume. But both Olympic and Chris usually don't move their college basketball lines very much from the original posted numbers to the opening numbers every other book posts the next
    morning.
    How can these two really big solid shops not move their lines more and still take the kind of overnight action they have to be getting?

    (2) Why does the clerk at Olympic call out almost all my plays to the linesman. They're usually just dime plays?

    Comment

    • #3
      to Reality:

      Upon rereading your post I have to ask are any of the three big clearing houses you mentioned in any kind of financial trouble?
      I feel silly for asking about these very noted and solid shops but there's been so much made of this "bad" football season.

      Comment

      • #4
        How bad exactly this football season has been is a good question ...

        Seems like all the favorite bettors (i.e., the public) are winning this season - everytime I look it seems another fav/over parlay hit (several on Sunday and again on last night MNF).

        p.s. Alas, since I bet 85% dogs I haven't cost the books a penny this football season ...

        Comment

        • #5
          Reality,

          Read in a thread were you said that the 10 largest shops take 200k + on each Sunday NFL game.

          What do the 10 largest shops take on a typical NBA game?


          Regards,

          Hamhog

          Comment

          • #6
            From what I understand, the last few weeks have been a little more bookmaker friendly than the season as a whole, which of course, is good for the overall health of the industry........This is also a perfect example of what can happen to the books that get into this business with a limited bankroll. Sure, it can be done, if the ball bounces your way, but if it doesn't, you need the capital to weather the storm until the 11/10 eventually works it's magic......

            Comment

            • #7
              auspice-

              The overnight line thing is overblown the main reason the is that if someones likes a game and wants to bet big money it cant be done in the overnight line market(illiquid) without moving the line before quantity can be bet. If a game is 3 and someone plays the limit at the 3-5 shops that have the number up You might get 10-15 dimes or so and the number is now 3 1/2,4 or 4 1/2. If you wait till the morning instead of 3-5 places to lay 3 you now have 30-50(since they will copy) and now can get down bigger volume at the good number.

              Your 2nd question is a show of respect from the BM. He wants to know what your doing, he respects your bets. Often the size of the bet is not as relevant as you emphasize, the source is more important to many BM's.

              Comment

              • #8
                [QUOTE]Originally posted by auspice:
                [B]to Reality:

                It's hard not to respect your knowledge of the bookmaking industry. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

                (1) My favorite book is Olympic. They are usually one of the first up with the line
                and they have great prop bets. Can't beat them. Question is....I always thought that the first book(s) up with the line took the most exposure and the most volume. But both Olympic and Chris usually don't move their college basketball lines very much from the original posted numbers to the opening numbers every other book posts the next
                morning.
                How can these two really big solid shops not move their lines more and still take the kind of overnight action they have to be getting?

                THE OVERNITE ACTION ISN'T REALLY THAT OVERWHELMING UNLESS A GAME HAS A PARTICULARLY WEAK LINE AND EVERYBODY IS TAKING ADVANTAGE OF IT.

                (2) Why does the clerk at Olympic call out almost all my plays to the linesman. They're usually just dime plays?

                SPIRO MIGHT NOT BE THERE WHEN YOUR PLAYING SO HIS INSTRUCTIONS MIGHT BE TO HAVE EVERY PLAY OVER A DIME CALLED OUT SO THE INDIVIDUAL IN THE BOX IS AWARE OF IT.

                REALITY

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by auspice:
                  to Reality:

                  Upon rereading your post I have to ask are any of the three big clearing houses you mentioned in any kind of financial trouble?
                  I feel silly for asking about these very noted and solid shops but there's been so much made of this "bad" football season.
                  THESE ARE THE MOST ROCK SOLID,CREME DE LA CREME OF SHOPS.

                  THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES AND ACCESS TO RESOURCES TO WITHSTAND MOST ANY SEASON.

                  WHEN THE SEE IT GOING THAT MUCH AGAINST THEM AND THEY HAVE TO ACCESS THESE RESOURCES THEY TAKE A MORE CONSERVATIVE APPROACH IN THEIR PHILOSOPHY.

                  REALITY

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    [QUOTE]Originally posted by mls:
                    [B]How bad exactly this football season has been is a good question ...

                    IT IS GENERALLY AGREED IT IS THE WORST IN MEMORY AND CERTAINLY IN THE LAST 20 YEARS.

                    REALITY


                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hamhog:
                      Reality,

                      Read in a thread were you said that the 10 largest shops take 200k + on each Sunday NFL game.

                      What do the 10 largest shops take on a typical NBA game?


                      Regards,

                      Hamhog
                      HAMHOG,

                      I AM FAMILIAR WITH THAT THREAD,I WASN'T THE INDIVIDUAL WHO MADE THAT COMMENT.

                      THE 10 LARGEST SHOPS PROBABLY GUARANTEE YOU ANYWHERE FROM 5 TO 15 DIMES ON THE SIDE AND 3 TO 5 DIMES ON THE TOTAL DEPENDING ON WHAT TIME YOU MAKE THE PLAY,HAS THE TALENT ALREADY PLAYED THE GAME,AND IF THE HOUSE NEEDS THE SIDE TO REDUCE THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THEY MIGHT GIVE YOU ALL YOU WANT...

                      REALITY

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jeff:
                        From what I understand, the last few weeks have been a little more bookmaker friendly than the season as a whole, which of course, is good for the overall health of the industry........This is also a perfect example of what can happen to the books that get into this business with a limited bankroll. Sure, it can be done, if the ball bounces your way, but if it doesn't, you need the capital to weather the storm until the 11/10 eventually works it's magic......
                        JEFF,

                        CAN YOU SAY:

                        TOO LITTLE...TOO LATE...

                        REALITY

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          I've talked to a couple of big-name BMs who told me that they've done great the past couple of months. Another sportsbook supervisor told me that his book hasn't had a losing day in two months.

                          When was the last time a BM came into this forum and told us how good their book was doing? The mantra that we publicly hear from BMs is always "Poor us. The players are killing us; the middles are falling; and the overhead and astronomical bonuses are draining us."

                          Hey, maybe when I make my next donation to the Sisters of the Poor, I'll also include one to the Offshore Bookmaker's Asociation.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Reno,

                            I would think the people you were talking to, are the books who tend to use their own opinions. Maybe it's the Clone joints that are all losing?

                            The day any bookie starts to clone his lines for NO REASON..... is the day the bookie no longer has CONTROL of his book WINNING OR LOSING.

                            I can't see how these people just copy the lines and accept the results.

                            If you win.... Who do you give the credit to?

                            But even worse.... If you lose.. Who do you blame?

                            Bad luck?

                            Don Best?

                            The Wiseguys?

                            The Public?

                            They will blame anybody, But themselves!

                            They won't blame themselves because they used the SAME numbers EVERYBODY else used, and that means they couldn't be at fault!

                            I think the books that do their own thing.... Are not having a problem at all!

                            From the people I talk to that seems to be what they are all saying! I have not heard that many people crying about this season!

                            I did not know this season was THAT BAD!

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Reality,

                              I meant in total handle per game, not per pop.


                              Regards,

                              Hamhog

                              Comment

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