bet without a bookie ...

[OZ]

Alec

That the thing , if punters are trying to be bookmakers at bet-ex it's not going to work

but if you can make a line on tennis (or any sports) and you say M SELES should only be even money(+100) V E demetieva

Then you can put up a offer of 1.70 M seles

which would mean you are getting about 2.35 on E DEMENTIEVA after tax

and punters will be getting about 1.665 on M SELES after tax

[alec]

OZ,

I understand this, of course. If I bet at Bet-Ex I would do exactly what you suggested, which is obvious.

What I do not understand is why nobody else does it (at least in tennis). I checked Bet-Ex's site several times about two years ago and I did it now. I see no difference in terms of the odds that people offer.

[Bookiebar]

Well I do agree that in general the odds are overall similar if not worse than those offered by the bookmakers. The only ones that are better are those on 50/50 games i.e. the NFL spreads and it does work out slightly better even with their take. As like alec said people are generally going to place odds that are similar to the bookmakers and more than likely worse. And if your going to be offering any serious wagers the people likely to be taking them are going to get better odds elsewhere as these people are the ones more likely to be shopping around anyhow.

For instance as most you already know you can find no juice deals or low lines like -107 -105 at some sports books anyway and at least when you place a bet you dont have to worry if its going to be taken etc.

And yes you really do have to wonder how many people have joined up to the service, 400,000 I dont think so, not sure how there numbering system works but I got an account number in the 400's (not quite 400,000!). Anyhow most of the wagers offered tend to be on european sports I have noticed, so maybe there is 400,000 soccer betters signed up? Just checked it now and I see under 100 offers, only 10 for the NFL tomorrow so at the very least it is a very small % of the 400,000 making offers, and if im not mistaken it is the people that make the offers in these types of operations that are the people the company needs to attract.

No offers naturally = no opportunities for the 399,900 other people to bet on!

[alec]

Bookiebar,

I have no interest in American sports. I bet on soccer and tennis. And I don't know a single place where one can find -105 line for tennis, for example.

Therefore the idea itself seems very promising to me. Unfortunately, in my opinion, it is still to be implemented.

Could you please share your experience, if any, with other sites you mentioned? I have never heard about them before.

I checked betfair.com today. At least they offer more options than Bet-Ex. What do you think about them?

[AussieVamp2]

Can't join betfair, flutter, betmart etc. if you are not in the UK or already have UK finances set up, as far as I am aware last I checked. Hence not particularly useful (might be something to do with tax/legal loopholes they are working in).

[Bookiebar]

Alec, I dont have any experience with betfair.com nor soccer or tennis for that matter. However it seems that sports like these are certainly better bet at a outfit like betfair, as you can get closer to true odds if you can find somebody to bet against you obviously.
I have only played around with the concept at flutter.com and bet-ex and found the sports that I prefer to bet on lacking in general. That said there is something slightly more appealing, or a novelty factor, beating another person rather than a bookie...

AV2 - you can join them if your based in any country that allows internet gambling, i.e. almost any country baring the US. Im based in NZ and have had no problems. I think they check your I.P address , if this is a problem and you really want to bet from the US I guess you use an anonomyser program, not that I condone this sort of behaviour ;-)

oops...Christ can't spell to save myself!


[This message has been edited by Bookiebar (edited 11-19-2000).]

[AussieVamp2]

Ok, maybe they have changed, but when I looked you had to be in UK/have UK debit cards etc., to be able to use them, maybe they have reorganised now.

If so, good.

[AussieVamp2]

Although having a look at betfair's rules, this is still there :-

4.4.1. You may deposit funds into your account by the following means: by credit card issued in the UK only; by debit card issued in the UK only; by cheque; or by bank wire transfer.

A little off-putting, eh?

This out of date?

[AussieVamp2]

-- More from betfair, obviously they have branched out on credit cards (slightly) and still have a fee.

betfair accepts Visa & Mastercard credit cards and Visa (formally Delta), Switch & Solo debit cards. For the time being, betfair only accepts payment cards issued in the UK, Republic of Ireland, Norway and Sweden. All money will be credited in pounds sterling.





Once you have submitted your details there will be a short delay before your transaction is authorised or declined. If your transaction is authorised your account will be credited immediately.
All card details are encrypted and sent over the internet using the Datacash Payment Gateway. Card checks are carried out alongside betfair’s acquiring bank The Royal Bank of Scotland plc. See Security information for further details.
To reflect betfair’s own charges, there is a 2% fee for all credit card transactions. This will be deducted from your deposit. Hence, for each £100 debited from your credit card, £98 will be credited to your account. There is no fee for debit card transactions.
The name that will appear alongside your transaction on your card statement is ‘betfair, London’.

[Bookiebar]

AV2, only have an account with Flutter.com and bet-ex so I cannot vouch for the others, and from your post it looks like a no for betfair. Was about to cut&paste their policy but their site is either down or overloaded with 400,000 bettors.. oops thats bet-ex :-)

up now..here's the blurb from flutter

Can I play if I'm outside the UK?

Yes, subject to your compliance with our terms and conditions. Flutter.com operates in pounds sterling, so any deposits and withdrawals will automatically be converted to and from sterling at the standard exchange rate offered by your credit card company

Which are --- (the main one is)

2.3.8 It is your responsibility to ensure that at all times you comply with all laws in any jurisdiction that apply to your use of our service. In particular, if you are a US, Japanese, South Korean or Indian citizen or resident, or live in another country where betting is prohibited, you must not register with us or attempt to use our service. If you attempt to do so, and the laws of the country of which you are resident and/or a citizen prohibit you from using our service, your credit card company will not authorise you to use your payment card to complete transactions in respect of our service.

etc etc


[This message has been edited by Bookiebar (edited 11-19-2000).]

[AussieVamp2]

2.3.3 If you are a bookmaker (as defined in section 55(1) of the Betting, Gaming and Lotteries Act 1963), an employee of a bookmaker using our website in the course of your employment, a professional gambler or one of our employees or an employee of our parent or subsidiary companies you are not permitted to register with us or to use our service.

2.3.4 We reserve the right, at our own discretion, to refuse to register you or to suspend and/or terminate your registration at our absolute discretion and shall not be obliged to provide you with any reasons for so doing.


-- something else from flutter, rules some more people from here out I guess

[AussieVamp2]

oh and you are right, flutter is slow, every time I have tried it

[Bookiebar]

Yes indeed those rules also not so good! But there are definatly people on the site acting as bookmakers, check out the NFL bets on offer for example! Any way why should they care if your running a bookmaking business on their site isn't that the whole damn point????

It's a shocker of a slow site is it not? Heavy on graphics and very bad software for making bets, hey I want to place bets not look at pretty pictures! If I want to look at pretty pictures.. well we all know where to get those?! ;-)
This is one of the reason's I cannot be bothered with the site. That and dealing in pounds and UK odds 4/2 9/5 and 456/342 eerrk, give me decimal odds any day.

Best bookies I know for software and no bleedin graphics are canbet.com.au and the one based in the india reservation in canada (name slips my mind but do not bet their yet as they dont have AUS$). Why oh why do you need 600 little buttons to download to make a bet for crying out loud, simple and effective is the name of the game, when will the rest learn... ok for all those on broadband I guess, but there are still some of us out there with 33K and 56K modems....
www.wagerstreet.com thats it an example to all! Its one for the slow pokes on the 33K modems, that and canbet.com.au!!! No p***ing around with namby pamby little pictures that nobody really cares about.


[This message has been edited by Bookiebar (edited 11-19-2000).]

[AussieVamp2]

Originally posted by Bookiebar:

Best bookies I know for software and no bleedin graphics are canbet.com.au and the one based in the india reservation in canada (name slips my mind but do not bet their yet as they dont have AUS$). Why oh why do you need 600 little buttons to download to make a bet for crying out loud, simple and effective is the name of the game, when will the rest learn...

Well, Megasports would probably be the fastest By the way, Sportsinteraction does have Australian dollar accounts.

[AussieVamp2]

I actually haven't been able to get into betmart for a couple of days either to check if they have changed anything there.

Imagine these places, probably beeing owned by rich guys in the UK won't like having Americans as said owners want to holiday in Disneyworld, not La Place de la Reno.