Gore May Win Florida!

[Mr. Humble]

Ill try and address all previous posts. First of all, anyone that thinks American elections are on the up and up needs immediate help, I know a very good doctor. Cons what is an intelligent political analyst, never seen one. And sure I dont know 100 million Repubs, but the dozens I do know dont give a crap about the nation. Remember I admitted Bush would help my bank account most likely. But facts are facts, look at both agendas. You see the problem is is that most Americans dont vote for the better man for the nation,they vote for who is best for them.Hamhog, I think the line goes "if you dont like the rules, move", dont live in the US if you dont want to help others,Im surprised you didnt edit that stupid line. And what really makes me laugh is that the US voted Bush Sr as there Prez once and we all know what a joke that was. That guy should still be in jail for his crap. What the hell makes you think his spoiled rotten son will do any better. Once again, a vote for Bush is a vote for greed. How can you vote for a man thyat has executed innocent people. And there are many more investigations ongoing as we speak. Hillary wins and Bush Jr probably will win. Have most Americans lost there mind. This is why the US has to count on Canadian resources so much, brains in the US dont seem to be going around like they used to. I miss the old America. Oh and Demon I loved the Annex comment. I guess you havent seen all the Canadians running most tech operations in the US. You see I laugh when I hear Americans talk silly about Canada, I guess we forgot that Toronto is the 4th most financially powerful city in the world. Anyways Im getting off topic I apologize. Just start looking at the facts.

[Hartley]

Well I'm also Canadian without a real opinion one way or another, but it seems to me that this argument that Gore is a sore loser is ridiculous.

We're talking about possibly the most important job in the whole world and IMO the president that the majority of Americans wanted in, should be in.

If Bush wins fairly then hats off to him. But they should do whatever they have to, to ensure that the will of the American people is represented.

My opinion anyways.

[Cons]

The way the Gore camp is filing lawsuits left and right is appaling. I still think of him as a sore loser.

I guess the real issue is why the hell is Florida so important after all? Every Western democracy apart from the US uses a popular vote to determine the presidency. Any other system is simply not democratic, and the obscure electoral system falls straight into that category.

How on Earth can you lose an election if you got the majority of votes? If the majority of Americans voted for Gore then why should Bush be president and why should Florida play an issue? What this comes down to is that the votes of people in Florida are more important at this point in time that those elsewhere. Where's the equality in that?

They should simply add up all votes cast for each president and whoever gets the most wins. It makes perfect sense: if the MAJORITY of Americans vote for you then you should be elected. It's as simple as that.

Only in America can you get the minority of the votes yet still end up being president. Well, I suppose it's also possible in Cuba or Iraq...

[parlay]

let's get our facts straight! only one suit has been filed so far and that is by the bush campaign to halt the LEGAL hand recount in palm beach. what's bushy trying to hide?

[Rich]

Bush the theif that he is is in the process
of trying to steal this election.The fucked up punch ballots were used in predomantly
Democratic counties routinely don't count 2-5% of the votes an admition by their makers.
32-1000 votes were not counted for president compared to non-punch ballots 1-1000 For him to try to stop a recount of ballots thrown out for no good reason only leads to my opinion of a man known to joke about executing women. This country will be in really bad shape with that thug and his propoganda team of Baker, Rove and Hughes.

That's not even mentioning the Butterfly ballot and the 1-1trillion chance that Gore
would not have won the race if this ballot was normal. That's from a noted statistiTIon

a 1 in a trillion chance that Bush "really"
won Florida WHAT A SHAM

[Rich]

Originally posted by Rich:
Bush the theif that he is is in the process
of trying to steal this election.The f**ked up punch ballots were used in predomantly
Democratic counties routinely don't count 2-5% of the votes an admition by their makers.
32-1000 votes were not counted for president compared to non-punch ballots 1-1000 For him to try to stop a recount of ballots thrown out for no good reason only leads to my opinion of a man known to joke about executing women. This country will be in really bad shape with that thug and his propoganda team of Baker, Rove and Hughes.

That's not even mentioning the Butterfly ballot and the 1-1trillion chance that Gore
would not have won the race if this ballot was normal. That's from a noted statistiTIon

a 1 in a trillion chance that Bush "really"
won Florida WHAT A SHAM

[MarkDel]

Reno,

Your comments above are, of course, right on target. The person who made that great statement was none other than Winston Churchill, who in his youth absolutely tortured his conservative father and teachers, yet turned out to be one of the greatest leaders in the 20th century.

[MarkDel]

Rich,

First of all, there's nothing wrong with being partisan, but at least get your facts right before you go out and make statements like the ones in this thread.

1. The Butterfly ballot was used in ONLY ONE county in Florida and that was Palm Beach County. It was created by the Democratic Party leaders in that county so that the type would be of a greater size, so that senior citizens (presumably Gore voters) could more easily read it. Because the type was so much larger than normal Florida ballots, the election officials in Palm Beach County were forced to put half of the candidates on the right side because there was not enough room on the left side for all of them to fit. Thus, the butterfly nature of the ballot was necessary, in their opinion. The irony here is quite amusing since they screwed themselves by trying to stack the deck in their favor. They clearly underestimated the intelligence of around 5% of the Democratic voters in Florida. Just note that a public school teacher in Georgia recently conducted a test to see if 35 third graders could figure out the butterfly ballot and the kids were a perfect 35 for 35.

2. The punch ballots are used throughout Flordia and several other states, and while I agree they are an atrocious way to measure voting, where were the Democrats to complain about this before the election?

3. I keep hearing about how the real issue here is not about legality, but we need to "get this right" to see to it that the "will of the people" is properly expressed. Well, if that's the case, then why are the same people (Democratslike yourself) who are so quick to support Gore regardless of the law in some cases, so quick to say that Bush missed his deadline to demand recounts so they should not be allowed in heavily Republican precincts. What the F*CK happened to the "will of the people" argument??? I guess you guys don't think it applies if it helps Republicans.

4. I keep hearing from you how the ballot was "clearly illegal" Well, check the actual Florida statutes and you'll find what amounts to two contradictory, yet legally enacted, laws. The first one says that Paper ballots or absentee ballots must have the candidates' names listed to the left of where the person marks their vote. The second one says merely that with mechanical ballots (including punch balltots), they must conform as closely as possible, with reasonable limitations, to the paper ballots to avoid confusion. It does NOT, NOT, NOT specifically say that mechanical ballots MUST have all of the candidates on the left side of the ballot.

5. What does you suppose is easier to falsify, a mechanical count or a hand count? Ovbiously the latter where punch ballots are concerned because you are checking for partially torn punches and it provides great opportunity for subjectivity. Why do you suppose Gore has gained so many votes in the recount with three heaviliy Democratic counties (Palm Beach, Pinellas and Gadsden) providing nearly all of the disparity. The average Republican county was coming back with Bish gains of four or five votes after the recount, while the three Democratic Counties above (two of which did NOT use Butterfly ballots) suddenly came back with at least 400 extra Gore votes. You doubt the numbers??? Check CNN.COM they have a county by county breakdown of how the recount went.

The bottom line here is that despite my anti-Gore sentiments, I feel that Gore will in fact win Florida. But he won't do so for reasons of justice in that he "took" the election from back from Bush who was trying to steal it. The real truth is that the Republicans will lose (as they deserve to) because they were too stupid and/or too honest to cheat as well as the Democrats did in Palm Beach, Pinellas and Gadsden. The way this has "gone down" in Florida, I feel the Democrats now deserve to win because they have shown a stronger commitment to their ideology than the Republicans. You guys are willing to take down the entire system and cause near civil war all to win an election. Republicans lack the same conviction which is why they consistently win less often than the numbers indicate they should. You Republicans out there need to wake the f*ck up and realize that the other side is playing by "guerrila tactics" and they will do whatever takes to win. When it comes to this battle, it's like a fight where one guy (the Republicans) shows up with 16-ounce boxing gloves and proclaims to fight by the Marquis of Queesnbury rules and the other guy (the Democrats) shows up bare-fisted with brass knuckles on one hand and a lead pipe in the other. The one guy proceeds to beat the other guy to death with the lead pipe and brass knuckles while the referee (the media) stands by and says to the Republicans, "come on keep it fair now"

I weep for this country

[MarkDel]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the "Canadian Genius" above named Mr. Humble...

You have an interestingly simplistic view of American politics, it's obvious that it must have taken you hours of tireless thought and deep philosophical consternation to arrive at your stunningly deep conclusions...just one question

Did you ride on one of those "short buses" to school?

[DOGS THAT BARK]

What if both parties split off to two seperate governments.Which party would flourish and which would fold.Are the Dems dependent on Reps or visa versa? Coincidently,Thanksgiving is just around the corner.

[Mr. Humble]

MarkDel, I could probably buy you 6 times over so dont talk like a guy that just read Time magazine. You see Mark as most Americans do, you only read 1/2 the words,and 1/2 of those you cant understand. Bush would probably make me alot more money than Gore would. But Im not like the average selfish ,greedy, me me me American. I actually care about others. And facts are Gore would really help the states, Bush Sr was a joke and so will Jr. Maybe you should look at there real agendas,not the ones you see on CNN. You see, I have no political reason to bash Bush except my education and common sense tell me he is a loser. Gore actually is a good man and will try and improve the US. And by the way you talk out of your ass, I can assume you voted for Bush. And yes I did ride on one of those short buses, but in Canada we call them limos. You wont win this one Mark,good try with the grade two lingo though. Dont worry, Bush will win anyways.

[Cons]

Mark, I have to say that I agree with you here on everything you say.

The hand counts seem to be the perfect excuse to alter the results in a corrupt way. The democrats are making Nixon look like a saint now.

My only hope is that the absentee ballots arrive and **** away any chance Gore has of rigging enough ballots to win. At least justice would be served.

If they're going to do hand counts, then they should recount all of Florida's votes. Otherwise it's daylight robbery, plain and simple.

Right now I'm wondering if it's actually possible for Florida to be excluded from the electoral vote when the Electoral College meets next month. I've heard on CNN that they can in fact go on without Florida. I really hope this isn't their tactic, as that would truly undermine democracy.

[Hartley]

Well we just had a municipal election here in Toronto and while the choices weren't that great (we have the current mayor up against a radical environmentalist, a transvestite whose platform is to legalize prostitution, a weirdo who wants to use illusion to mayor and a bunch of other freaks), it still brings up a question I have.

The ballot here was pretty easy. You fill in the two broken arrows next to a candidate's name to complete the ballot. The ballot is fed into a machine and it either accepts it or rejects it if it wasn't filled in right. The ballots are uniform throughout the city.

My question - why are there different ballots everywhere? Even in our federal elections the ballots are apparently uniform throughout the country. It's hard to fathom why Palm County has a different ballot from Dade which has a different one from Velusia etc.

Anybody?

[FreelLancer]

Mr. Humble -

Where do I begin. Reading your postings was actually funny, like listening to the little kid down the street who always talked a big game, but was too much of a puss to ever step up to the plate. Though your contradictions are numerous, I am sure that the fact won't chip away at your high opinion of yourself.

You say that you are not the typical me me me American, and yet you were so quick to point out that you could buy Mark, whom you do not know from Adam, six times over. Wow. And just a few sentences later, you have the gall to say that you care about others. What a load of horse shit.

With regard to some of your opinions about Bush, here is my summary of that crap. You say that Bush has already been proven to have killed innocent people. I don't know what you think you know about OUR legal system, but I'll educate you for your Citizenship exam that I know you want to take. First of all, a jury of our peers decides whether or not we are guilty. Then a judge (or judges) will answer any appeals to the validity of the findings of that jury. To blame Governor Bush for the deaths of any individual that was executed in his state, just because he has the ability to Pardon with clemency, is also a load of horse shit. I know this is hard for you to grasp, the thought of due process, because we in this country, don't listen to the queen anymore - - we kicked her ass out.

Also, you keep referring to Governor Bush as a lowlife who had everything handed to him on a silver platter. Am I correct to understand that all of you little Canadians ride to school in limos? Wow. That must be what the 60% income taxes you guys take right in the ass is for.

And what are the Canadian resources we are so dependent on? The tittie-bars in Toronto? Regardless, if a bear uses all of the bee's honey to feed on, does that make the bear less resourceful or does it just mean that the bee exists to serve the bear?

Anyway, you should not generalize so quickly about the people whom you left your country to live amongst, else you might be asked to leave. Because there must not be too many opportunities for tech wizards like yourself up there in that great country of yours, huh?

Direct from the Land of the Brave and the home of the FreelLancer...

[hiptwo]

freelancer, just a few words about bush jr.
#1. no silver spoon for him! oil! oil! oil! no wonder he's got a slick tongue
#2. daddy and some other oil company's bailed him out.
#3. min. wage. one of the lowest in the nation.
#3 i don't even want to talk about education! that he offers texas.
#4. killing people? he and the state don't consider dna. their are some states that have used the dna test and its proven at times they convict the wrong person.
#4 read some history of texas (this is not the times of judge roy bean.