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When is a line BAD?

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  • When is a line BAD?

    I won't mention the name of the book because they are all things considered, a pretty decent outfit. I'm considering closing my account with them however but haven't made my mind up yet. Comments from both bettors and sportsbooks would be appreciated. If the unnamed book wants to come out of the closet and identify/defend itself that's OK too. If they read this post they should be able to recognize themselves (they are listed at the top of the page).

    On Sunday I placed a fairly substantial wager with them on the Vancouver Canucks at +0.5, +105. The next day I discovered an e-mail to the effect that my wager had been cancelled because the line was BAD. I talked to the general manager and was informed that the line had been posted in reverse. Vancouver should have been
    +0.5, -125.

    The point I tried to make with him and what I will try to make here as well is "How the hell am I supposed to know that?". At the time I placed the wager Vancouver ranged from -105 at Carib to -120 at WWTS. I said that his line was better than anyone else's by 10 cents so I took it. I didn't think it was so far off as to be a bad line. If there had been a slightly bigger discrepancy (say 5 or 10 cents) I would have checked with the sportsbook. If the discrepancy had been bigger than that I would have avoided the line altogether.

    If the line had been posted as he wanted it then his line on Tampa Bay would have been better than anything else currently posted by 5 cents. So either way the line was a good one for observant bettors.

    Some other points. This book generally posts their lines about 12 o'clock but may have been delayed due to heavy football action. If they posted them as late as 1 o'clock this BAD line was up for at least an hour before I jumped on it just after 2 PM. The e-mail arrived on my machine at 3:30 PM, just 30 minutes prior to game time but it being Canadian Thanksgiving I was not logged on so didn't see it. The wager I made was large for me but not out of line with what I've bet at this book in the past. In the past this book has often posted lines 10 cents or more better than anyone else's and there's never been a problem.

    If they had very unbalanced action on the game because of the BAD line they could always have covered my bet and any other bets on Vancouver at another shop. They might have lost a few dollars but they would be miles ahead in customer relations.

    But I suppose the real bottom line here is whether or not there is any honour in this business. This book made a contract with me and I took it in good faith. I'm not out to screw anyone and never have. All I'm asking for is a decent line and my payout if I happen to win. I don't have the option of calling the book back an hour later and saying that I want to take back the wager because WWTS had a much better line and I'm going to wager there instead.

    a very steamed wintermute

  • #2
    A dime off any major book cannot possibly be an "obvious" error.

    Personally I would appreciate knowing the name of the book.

    Pulling something like this has to be a sign of a financially weak book - for the sake of saving a little juice (by laying the dime difference at Carib if they hated the side) they have revealed their true selves.

    This is a book to definitely stay away from!

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    • #3
      wintermute - a BAD line to me is a line that you jumped into it knowing that you had a good shop and lose.

      Seriously, it would be for the best of everyone if you name that shop. I agreed with you 100%. We as bettors are NOT RESPONSIBLE for any bad line. Once that wager had been "clicked and confimed" it should be action all the way. Bad or not. Nothing different than calling a bet. Once the readback had been read, it is a done deal.

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      • #4
        That was not a BAD line. That was an OFF line. A BAD line is a line that is obviously a mistake. A line that may by off by 20 cents on a Canadian line is just a line that is slightly off. Big difference. The book should honor the bet. This nonsence is becoming far too common place and has to end.

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        • #5
          Wintermute, in my opinion you did absolutely nothing wrong and your bet should be honored without question. If this happened to me I'd never make another bet with that book and close my account ASAP. Like the others, I would very much like to know the name of the book in question so I can avoid them like the plague! I realize that for obvious reasons you may not want to name the book right now, but once you've closed your account...

          Best of luck to you in getting this resolved.

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          • #6
            Telling everyone the name of the book that did this would be like giving away thier BIG SECRET, That they are just a big blumbering CLONE JOINT.

            They just didn't post the odds right! They couldn't even CLONE right that night!

            I mean, I would have thought "Hey they have an OPINION on this hockey game. I love books that have an OPINION and will give them a bet." If I liked the game I would have bet it also. Why not?

            Quick story.....

            Walked into Harrahs and the line on the Cards/Mets series was -120 on the Mets, And Even money on the Cards. Cool..... Walked into the Imperial Palace RIGHT NEXT DOOR and they had the series.. Cards -130 and the Mets +110!!!!!!!!!!

            Question? What the hell am I supposed to do? Call the gaming Commision and REPORT this? Stay as far away from these books as possible? Tell BOTH book managers they had BAD LINES on the series? Call the Casino boss and let them know their book managers are all Idoits?

            Books have to be responsible for any line they post! They can check the lines 20 times if they have to.

            This book can't be much of a book if it needs to cancel this bet. This line just isn't that far off! Hockey has 3 different lines anyway and you do see alot of DIFFERENCES during the day.

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            • #7
              Vancouver was supposed to be -.5, not +.5.

              Shawn (who had Tampa +.5, +105 and was looking good with the Lightning up 4-2 after 57 minutes...AAARRGH)

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              • #8
                My opinion is that the book is guilty of atrocious customer relations. A “bad line” is one of those things that it is hard to define precisely. Therefore a solid book that cares about customer relations will honor all “gray area” lines and absorb the loss that was caused by what was, after all, their mistake. A solid book will only label something a “bad line” and cancel wagers in a blatantly obvious case, such as reversing a 20 point favorite and a 20 point underdog. They will interpret ambiguous cases in the player’s favor, so as to maintain a good relationship with that player.

                A less reputable book will interpret “gray area” cases against the player, so as to save a few pennies in the short run. (And frankly, given how close that line was to what was posted at other books, I’m being really charitable to them by even describing this case as if it was a close call. To me, that was pretty clearly not a bad line.)

                I think what you have now is evidence that when it comes to judgment calls, this book will look for ways to gain an edge over you. I’d be inclined to leave them if I were you. You really need to have a certain level of confidence that your book is trustworthy and honorable, because ambiguous situations are certain to arise. Not every eventuality can be anticipated by hard and fast rules; there will always be a human element to booking, an obligation to use fairness, common sense, and a respect for one’s customers. Given what you’ve said, this book seems to me not to be worthy of trust that they will consistently fulfill that obligation, so they do not deserve your business.

                Unless I’m really naïve and ill-informed, there are many, many solid books out there that can be trusted not to pull something like this. I’m sure they’d appreciate your business.

                I think you should either reveal the name of the book in the forum (at the appropriate time), or at least let Jeff and Brian know, since you say it is a Bettorsworld endorsed book. Something like this is relevant evidence as to whether such an endorsement is deserved, so they should be given the opportunity to take this information and deal with it as they think best.

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                • #9
                  Sorry, small correction. As Shawn mentioned Vancouver was favourite so read -0.5 instead of +0.5 in post. Doesn't change the argument though.

                  wintermute

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                  • #10
                    By the way, I expected bettors to agree with me. Any points of view form the sportsbook people?

                    wntermute

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                    • #11
                      OK so the book had Vancouver -.5 the whole way, it was just the money that was off by 30 cents?

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                      • #12
                        seem to remember seeing Vancouver -0.5 +115 as well, no arguments from there? (not that anything I win should ever provoke one)

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                        • #13
                          I made a small bet with vancouver -0.5 +115 around 1 pm ET and got paid. Line was even better at another place earlier (see Tampatampa's topic on that date at Bookies Hell forum)

                          [This message has been edited by PMcK (edited 10-11-2000).]

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                          • #14
                            I agree that your bet should have been honored...that's a small line difference that the book should have to eat. Several months ago I had a book cancel a bet on a golf match. There was no mistake in their line...I just beat them to the number. I immediately closed my account. You should do the same.

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                            • #15
                              Shawn:

                              Just the money line.

                              wintermute

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