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In response to our article at http://www.professionalGambler.com/sportsbetting.html , Terry at Sportsbetting.com has rewritten the offending rule being discussed on this forum.
Here is the text of our article, along with the exchange between Terry and I:
It was brought to our attention on September 9th, 2000, that Sportsbetting.com (a sportbook licensed in Antigua) had a very interesting rule buried in their "terms of service" at http://www.sportsbetting.com/terms.html. Get a load of this:
"Professional sports gamblers (Wise Guys) are not allowed membership at SPORTSBETTING.COM. If a suspected professional sports gambler does open an account at SPORTSBETTING.COM, SPORTSBETTING.COM reserves the right to 1) cancel this account at any time without notice, and 2) refund any initial deposits made by the professional sports gambler into the SPORTSBETTING.COM account as SPORTSBETTING.COM's only liability towards any and all winnings the professional sports gambler may have achieved."
...A "suspected" professional? A "suspected" Wise Guy? This stipulation means, of course, that Sportsbetting.com does not have to pay anyone any winnings at all. It doesn't really matter whether or not you are a professional gambler. All they have to do is declare they "suspect" you are a professional gambler. Then they can keep whatever you won.
This kind of outrageous crap is one of the reasons we recommend you stay away from sportbooks in tiny Carribean countries. We recommend only sportbooks overseen by England or Australia or other established and stable governments.
If you were a crook who wanted to make a fast fortune and retire, how about opening a sportbook that's not well regulated by the local government, sneaking the above paragraph into your "terms and conditions" and then refusing to pay any winners at all...because you "suspect" anybody that wins is a professional gambler?
In a nutshell, do NOT open an account at Sportsbetting.com if you expect to win anything. - J. R. Miller
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^vv^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
NOTE: We received this response two days later from "Terry" at Sportsbetting.com....
09/11/00: Someone recently told me about your editorial about our site. After reading your site he asked why he should open an account with us. Here is what I told him,
"First -- we have NEVER declined to pay 100% of players winnings.
Why you ask do we have this rule? Just as a NYSE listed casino companies ban players for different reasons, we reserve this right against professionals since our line is not made to weigh up against this type of person. We can't afford and don't want their action.
A "wise guy" or professional sports gambler is in no way to be confused with a winner or even a big winner. These two players are in no way related.
"Dodgy" is not a word which has any relevance to our rule.
Why should you join our sport book? Well you seem to be intelligent and well informed. We can offer you a great site, great promotions and great customer service. We'll pay you every time and do our best to make you happy.
Please let us know if we can help further."
I think your recommendations should be more thoroughly researched before you make blanket recommendations which are not based on fact. - Terry
Our Response (via email): We will post your letter on our "Letters" page and also at the bottom of the article.
I'm not here to make enemies of you or anyone else, and we want to be fair. Any response you have will be prominently displayed at our website. If your rule says something you did not intend, perhaps you should re-write it or edit it, to make it more clear. As your rule stands, I am sorry, but we feel it is in our subscribers' best interest to take their business elsewhere.
Have you considered betting limits to protect yourself from "chronic winners"? - J. R. Miller
v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
NOTE: We received this response from Terry at Sportsbetting.com the next morning...
09/12/00: JR: In response to your concerns I am sending the following. Please post the entire message on your site. - Terry
1) We have modified the rules so that there is no future misunderstanding as to the intentions of our restrictions. The new rule reads,
"Professional sports gamblers (Wise Guys) are not allowed access to the services provided by SPORTSBETTING.COM. If a suspected professional sports gambler does open an account at SPORTSBETTING.COM, SPORTSBETTING.COM reserves the right to cancel this account at any time without notice."
2) I would like to make everyone aware that we have NEVER refused (for any reason) to pay 100% of a player's winnings.
Just as all NYSE listed casino companies ban certain players for certain reasons, we reserve the right to restrict "professionals" from accessing our services. Our lines are not made to weigh up against "professionals" and we cannot afford their action.
We do not define a "professional" as a winner or even big winner, but rather as one of the VERY FEW people who have made true careers out of sports gambling."
Implying that we would use this clause to get out of paying our winners is unfair and baseless.
Our intentions from the beginning have been to provide you with great lines, great service and assurance that you will be paid.
If anyone would like to discuss this in more detail directly with us please send an email to: comments@sportsbetting.com
3) To answer your question about betting limits. Our betting maximim on a straight wager since the day we opened is a relatively low US $1,100.
We reiterate that we never intended to cancel an account simply because the player 'wins too much'. This rule is written in conjunction with our policy on betting limits to discourage professional gamblers from accessing the services of our site.
We hope this helps clear the air and remove anyone's doubts.
Our Response (via email): Terry: We have posted your message on our "Letters" page and added it to our article. Thank you for your quick response, which is in everyone's best interest. It is reassuring to see you have re-written the rule, although we are still bothered by what might be your terms of cancellation. We are assuming the best - which, in many cases can be a naive thing to do - by assuming you mean the "cancelled" bettor receives all the monies due him to date. If you could clear up that one point in the phraseology of your rule, we would be a whole lot more comfortable recommending your sportbook. - J. R. Miller
Here is the text of our article, along with the exchange between Terry and I:
It was brought to our attention on September 9th, 2000, that Sportsbetting.com (a sportbook licensed in Antigua) had a very interesting rule buried in their "terms of service" at http://www.sportsbetting.com/terms.html. Get a load of this:
"Professional sports gamblers (Wise Guys) are not allowed membership at SPORTSBETTING.COM. If a suspected professional sports gambler does open an account at SPORTSBETTING.COM, SPORTSBETTING.COM reserves the right to 1) cancel this account at any time without notice, and 2) refund any initial deposits made by the professional sports gambler into the SPORTSBETTING.COM account as SPORTSBETTING.COM's only liability towards any and all winnings the professional sports gambler may have achieved."
...A "suspected" professional? A "suspected" Wise Guy? This stipulation means, of course, that Sportsbetting.com does not have to pay anyone any winnings at all. It doesn't really matter whether or not you are a professional gambler. All they have to do is declare they "suspect" you are a professional gambler. Then they can keep whatever you won.
This kind of outrageous crap is one of the reasons we recommend you stay away from sportbooks in tiny Carribean countries. We recommend only sportbooks overseen by England or Australia or other established and stable governments.
If you were a crook who wanted to make a fast fortune and retire, how about opening a sportbook that's not well regulated by the local government, sneaking the above paragraph into your "terms and conditions" and then refusing to pay any winners at all...because you "suspect" anybody that wins is a professional gambler?
In a nutshell, do NOT open an account at Sportsbetting.com if you expect to win anything. - J. R. Miller
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^vv^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
NOTE: We received this response two days later from "Terry" at Sportsbetting.com....
09/11/00: Someone recently told me about your editorial about our site. After reading your site he asked why he should open an account with us. Here is what I told him,
"First -- we have NEVER declined to pay 100% of players winnings.
Why you ask do we have this rule? Just as a NYSE listed casino companies ban players for different reasons, we reserve this right against professionals since our line is not made to weigh up against this type of person. We can't afford and don't want their action.
A "wise guy" or professional sports gambler is in no way to be confused with a winner or even a big winner. These two players are in no way related.
"Dodgy" is not a word which has any relevance to our rule.
Why should you join our sport book? Well you seem to be intelligent and well informed. We can offer you a great site, great promotions and great customer service. We'll pay you every time and do our best to make you happy.
Please let us know if we can help further."
I think your recommendations should be more thoroughly researched before you make blanket recommendations which are not based on fact. - Terry
Our Response (via email): We will post your letter on our "Letters" page and also at the bottom of the article.
I'm not here to make enemies of you or anyone else, and we want to be fair. Any response you have will be prominently displayed at our website. If your rule says something you did not intend, perhaps you should re-write it or edit it, to make it more clear. As your rule stands, I am sorry, but we feel it is in our subscribers' best interest to take their business elsewhere.
Have you considered betting limits to protect yourself from "chronic winners"? - J. R. Miller
v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
NOTE: We received this response from Terry at Sportsbetting.com the next morning...
09/12/00: JR: In response to your concerns I am sending the following. Please post the entire message on your site. - Terry
1) We have modified the rules so that there is no future misunderstanding as to the intentions of our restrictions. The new rule reads,
"Professional sports gamblers (Wise Guys) are not allowed access to the services provided by SPORTSBETTING.COM. If a suspected professional sports gambler does open an account at SPORTSBETTING.COM, SPORTSBETTING.COM reserves the right to cancel this account at any time without notice."
2) I would like to make everyone aware that we have NEVER refused (for any reason) to pay 100% of a player's winnings.
Just as all NYSE listed casino companies ban certain players for certain reasons, we reserve the right to restrict "professionals" from accessing our services. Our lines are not made to weigh up against "professionals" and we cannot afford their action.
We do not define a "professional" as a winner or even big winner, but rather as one of the VERY FEW people who have made true careers out of sports gambling."
Implying that we would use this clause to get out of paying our winners is unfair and baseless.
Our intentions from the beginning have been to provide you with great lines, great service and assurance that you will be paid.
If anyone would like to discuss this in more detail directly with us please send an email to: comments@sportsbetting.com
3) To answer your question about betting limits. Our betting maximim on a straight wager since the day we opened is a relatively low US $1,100.
We reiterate that we never intended to cancel an account simply because the player 'wins too much'. This rule is written in conjunction with our policy on betting limits to discourage professional gamblers from accessing the services of our site.
We hope this helps clear the air and remove anyone's doubts.
Our Response (via email): Terry: We have posted your message on our "Letters" page and added it to our article. Thank you for your quick response, which is in everyone's best interest. It is reassuring to see you have re-written the rule, although we are still bothered by what might be your terms of cancellation. We are assuming the best - which, in many cases can be a naive thing to do - by assuming you mean the "cancelled" bettor receives all the monies due him to date. If you could clear up that one point in the phraseology of your rule, we would be a whole lot more comfortable recommending your sportbook. - J. R. Miller