Opinions on this rule of betting .....

[Railbird]

Rose won,although that does not matter.
I guess Vince Lombardi was wrong.

[freak]

Same situation happened again on Monday...

Overnights had helling vs burba -135

It ended up helling vs woodard -120 or so

I Think these situations happen more often than we realize.


Zippy, as far as I know, no NFL bets get changed to a new line if for example you bet it on the opener on sunday night and then on wednesday the starter gets hurt.

Same for NBA,NHL or any other sport I can think of.

Seems this rule is only enforced in baseabll.

I was hoping a BM or Sportsbook would have stepped up to tackle this issue but none to date.

[Ronbets]

Up until approx. 10 years ago, BMs would post lines for the 4 possible pitching matchups for doubleheaders. If they suspected Pedro might miss the start, they'd put up 2 different prices. One with Pedro and one without. Current policy is to make it quick and simple and we can always adjust later.

Railbird, do you still want to go under 50? You're forgetting overnights. BTW, I missed the "nice guys" point. Oh yea, I'm getting my tyrants mixed up. That was Leo. You're referring to the "Winning is the only...." quote. Got it.

[This message has been edited by Ronbets (edited 08-08-2000).]

[randyrohm]

Zippy, a couple of years ago I asked the same question after my play was reduced due to a pitching change. Thanks to this place I now know why such things can't be. With great books that take huge limits, how could you let a player take a shot at you because he knew Pedro M. or Greg M. got scratched 30 seconds before you did? It may not be fair, but players that get that info that quick are playing a bad line. It is only a matter of protection. Not many pros would put twenty dimes on Indy over the number, but most would would take the BoSox opponent +220 with the emerg. starter in.

[zippy]

So it sounds like what I mentioned in my last sentence is indeed the key. It’s not so much that they can’t calculate a line that accounts for the slight uncertainty of who will start; they are just afraid of being vulnerable to bettors who find out about a change before they do.

The principle behind this rule would presumably then be something like the following:

“We reserve the right to alter the odds on your wager after the fact in cases where both: a) A change in the conditions occurs that it is possible for a bettor to find out about before we do, and b) This change is significant enough to drastically alter the probable outcome of the event.”

The further implication would be that these criteria are never met in sports except in the case of starting pitcher changes in baseball.

The questions, then, would be:

1. Should the books be allowed to protect themselves in this way from “inside” information? And,

2. Are starting pitcher changes indeed the only such “inside” information that’s significant enough to necessitate such protection?

I don’t have strong opinions on either of these questions at this time, but I agree with freak that it’s a good topic of conversation, and it’s interesting to hear explanations and arguments on all sides.

[Ronbets]

Zippy,

There are a few others I'd like to share with you but its my livelihood. Sorry.

[jlpblade]

Didn't some book allow bettors to stipulate goaltenders in NHL games in recent seasons? It's a situation similar to starting pitchers, but didn't seem to catch on. Maybe because we U.S. bettors don't know soccer or hockey ...

Jeff

[deepsouth]

Zippy--I would say yes, there isn't any last minute info big enough to necessitate a rule.
For example, there was some uncertainty today about whether Manny Ramirez would be able to go for Cleveland. Turned out he didn't play, but if he had, I don't think the line would have been more than 10-15 points different than it was.

The reason I don't have a problem with this rule is that a big part of my decision on who to bet on is based on the starting pitchers. So I don't mind the bet being conditional on the listed pitchers going.

[This message has been edited by deepsouth (edited 08-09-2000).]

[Railbird]

Right ronbets,it is mostly overnights on the pitching changes,the overnight limits are small,so shops are not that vulnerable,most of the opportunites are because of trades near aug 1,but I guess that would actually make bookmakers work a little to pay attention.

Dingleberry,

you should have pressed your bet,then you have -100 maybe,then not so annoying.

[DoggieStyle]

Just my thoughts...

Action bets on baseball are just that.... Someone just wants ACTION on a game and doesn't care about the ODDS. It is a trick used by the Sports books to rip off suckers and players who don't know any difference. Plain and simple.

They figure anybody who will bet a game and risk getting a HORRIBLE NEW PRICE because of a pitching change is just like those players who will lay 8 on a game, that is 7 every where else. They are not about to lose this edge.......

All bets should be LISTED PITCHERS with an OPTION to have ACTION. Then every player would know about the rule. Way too many players don't know about this rule and the BOOKS want to keep it that way.

After all the Books take EVERY BET on baseball, EVEN ACTION BETS, With the line based on the STARTING PITCHERS. They CAN'T be screwed with the new odds.

All Baseball odds begin with the pitchers. All baseball bets really should be LISTED PITCHERS. The Sports Books traps players who don't know any better because they don't want to LOSE THE BETS ON THE GAME. This allows them to keep all of the action bets on the game. AT THE ODDS THE BOOKS WANT.

But it is an OPTION. Every time there is a pitching change, Some action players will get hurt by this rule and WAKE UP and change!

Books can't be serious who don't offer LISTED PITCHERS on-line for every baseball bet. This will stop any thing even close to being sharp from getting bet on-line. Most Bookies ignore any NON-LISTED PITCHER baseball bets. Why? Because the player betting the NON-LISTED PITCHERS can't be serious.......

[Railbird]

very nice post Dog,

Another deceptive ploy Bm's do.

on parlay cards

3 teamer 6for1 which is 5-1.robbing tourists

then they whine and say we take potshots.

[sportshobby]

I just noticed on the SBG website that all baseball bets are ACTION only, "no exceptions." What gives? Is this true for totals as well? What if I call in a wager by phone, can I specify pitchers?

Also, what about that software change at Premiere and other places that doesn't allow specifying both pitchers? Am I missing something?

[freak]

Interesting points all around.....