Opinions on this rule of betting .....

[freak]

In the event there is a pitching change prior to the game, moneyline odds may be adjusted. If one scheduled pitcher starts against an unscheduled pitcher, "Action" wagers will be computed by the opening price with the new pitcher.


Example Milton +115 vs Detroit and Nomo

Nomo scratched Blair inserted line changes to -105 right before game time.

You bet the game overnight action on Minnesota +115

Instead you ended up with Minnesota -105

Without notification

Thoughts on this situation......

[REALITY]

FREAK,

IT'S COMPLETELY LEGITIMATE.

IF YOU WANT TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM THIS AND LOCK IN THE PRICE,JUST SPECIFY BOTH PITCHERS.

IF THEY DON'T HOOK YOU HAVE NO WAGER AND ARE NOT SUBJECT TO AN ADJUSTED PRICE.

REALITY

[BettingProphets]

Absolutely that is why you must select listed both Olympic gives you that option on the Overnight line as well as right before gametime...you should always do this as a protective measure to ensure the safety of your money in a locked in wager...I got screwed same situation earlier this year had overnight boehringer for pads for 3 dimes listed other pitcher but not boehringer and lopez ends up playing instead and it was against the braves I believe and the ended up losing in late innings and I was out my money

[Railbird]

Freak,

My Thoughts are that the rule Sucks and needs to be changed,in football if they change qbs before game time,they dont pull that crap.

Then your asking a clone bookmaker to actually make up some price on a new pitcher,what happens if the pitcher hurts his arm on his warm up tosses,they make up a new line when the clean up hitter is up.

It seem like this rule has been tinkerd with because they use to honor your price on your ticket in Vegas,then one day you started seeing a little A -for action on your ticket.

Its not fair because the BM can tilt it his way on the price.

I will always try to give my opinion,not tell you something that is stupid and something you already know,like you should have listed the pitchers.

[Ronbets]

Railbird,

I gave you a lot more credit than you emit. Here's what I'm getting at.
#1 If starting qb is pulled prior to game time and BM is alerted? Game goes off the board and then reposted in circle with adjustment. Granted all bets regardless action. Sharps edge to have inside info.

#2 If BM honors all baseball lines in similar fashion with no pitcher adjustment? Any late pitching change, I'm going to be there first most of the time. I'll end up with maybe 50 straight bets per year with scalp juice working. Isn't that good enough reason for him to institute that rule?

#3 What about totals and run lines? Leave them as is too? OK, thats another 100+ bets per year with juice and runs working for me the player.

#4 Reality gave the best option available. If Freak was sure, he wouldn't have inquired.

#5 Let's be positive. How would you change the rule?

Don't get me wrong, I want to beat the BMs as badly as you do. With no adjustments? It's robbery.

[marlowe]

If you're betting on Pedro and he scratches in favor of Ramon then you understand the need for this rule.

If you're betting action you are not entitled to notification because the book rules state in advance that an action bet automatically receives the newly adjusted odds. How would it be practical to notify you of the new odds anyway?

To avoid this situation choose books such as Gameday, Olympic, and Aces Gold which allow you to select pitchers online.

[freak]

Thanks for the replies......

I am aware of this rule......

I wanted opinions on the rule itself. I gave the latest example on it and yes I had the game.

I particulary don't like the rule but live with it. That is part of betting.

I can see the point of it having to be done to protect the books and perhaps the player in the Pedro situation. However I don't think all books use this rule.....

I searched the books I use, and all of them give you the option for listed pitchers, but I couldn't find that rule with all of them.

Topic for discussion is good talk.

[Railbird]

Hey everybody,

We dont have to keep reiterating the rule,we kmow it.

Why should the players be punished for having information

In football you bet Bills +210 to Beat Titans,then their lard ass loser coach puts in Johnson instead of Flutie,your screwed.

Ronbets,

I will take the under on 50,try about 15.

The books have the edge 99% of the time,they dont have it 1 time,so they act like little punks.

Its like the owner of a bar,buying a guy a drink on the house,then the bookkeeper runs over dont do it,your gonna hurt are bottomline.

[marlowe]

1. Books do not want pitching changes as they reduce the amount of money a book handles on a game and that amount is all a book cares about.

2. The action/adjustment rule is necessary because of Pedro, Randy, KBrown etc. The QB analogy is apples and oranges irrelevant. Odds can go from -240 to +120 based on a pitching change while a QB switch is max 2 points.

3. For the three parties involved--the book, the dog players, and the fav players--the action/adjustment rule is the fairest and most reasonable way to resolve a pitching change.

4. For the scratched game the rule cuts equally for the dog and fav players with the book not in the equation.

5. The book does get a break in the elimination of a potential enormous scalping opportunity. The potential enormity of the scalp is why this is a legitimate break.

6. In all the times I've had the rule applied I have never been stuck with a line I considered unfair or unscrupulous.

7. I don't know of any books that don't use the rule. Anyone who does please post them here and I will place all my big dog wagers there on action hoping there'll be a pitching change.

[Ronbets]

Marlowe,

Basically agree with your post. However, disagree with qb switch statement. Quote, " qb switch max 2 points". Drew Brees and Michael Vick come to mind among others.

If I find the book that doesn't use the pitcher rule, you're the last guy I'm going to tell.

[marlowe]

Ronbets, you're right re college QBs, but pro? The only exception I've come up with was Tom Matte starting in stead of Johnny U and Earl Morrall.

[Ronbets]

Marlowe,

Wow! you go back that far too? That's got to be the biggest talent gap from 1-3 ever used. A hot shot running back starting a playoff game in lieu of a hall of famer and a heralded back up. I beleve Colt announcer Chuck Thompson stated that Matte had very little experience as a college qb.1967?

Good recall oldtimer

[Railbird]

Flutie is 7min better than rob,watch and see Again,and a 20cent swing is the norm in pitching,case in point being Freak.

the overnight board should or could list 2 diffrent lines for the pitcher possibilities,as use to be the case in Vegas,but unfortunatley some places are not that much on the ball.

[Dingle]

Freak

I play with intertops cos i'm a small time player, and they cover lots of soccer.

In their rules it states that if there is a c/o/p then bets as action go to the amended line.

My situation was I bet Pedro at -200, cant remember who against, on the overnights.

Wake up next day and lo and behold BRIAN ROSE is pitching. The new line is -200 the other way.

E-mail Intertops explain this(hours b4 gametime) and asking whether I get the amended line as all bets are action, you cant list pitchers. And, if not, could they void the bet.

Firstly I get an e-mail which is supposed to go internally to one of their departments saying "could you give the perfect answer for this customer".

THATS RIGHT i get an e-mail not even for me.(I didn't take this up with them, I allowed for the fact it was an obvious error).

Then I get a reply saying that all bets are action regardless of pitchers, so I have to sit through the game with a +1.80 dog, but i am on him at -200. Rose won, although that does not matter.

The thing that annoys me is that I am a fun player, and play with a very very small allowance I give myself(I lose quite a lot on American sports), just to have some interest in the games, and they still cant find any lee-way on this. (this may make seem as if I don't belong here, but my belief is that books should show equal respect to ALL customers).

Now thats a situation where the amended line could have worked big in my favour, if only I played with a decent book, with the correct rules posted on their website.

Would you be happy if that happened to you I dont think so. So not only does it protect the book (not intertops), but the player, and is a good rule. If you dont like it, list pitchers on every bet, fairly simple really.

I now pledge that whenever I see a pitching change occur I will try and play every off number, cos they are slow and they deserve it.

Would be interesting to see if they would have given me the amended line if I played the dog, which went from +180 to -200.

Guess I'll never know unless the situation arises again.

Anyway this was supposed to be an example of the amended line in favour of the punter, sort off went off on one with Itnertops.

You see what I mean though.

Dingle

[zippy]

I’m not a baseball bettor, so please excuse my questions if they are naïve.

1. Are there other sports where the odds can float like that after you’ve made your bet (other than parimutuel wagering, like at the race track)? I didn’t even realize until I saw this thread that that’s the way it works in baseball if you don’t specify the pitchers.

2. I see that the practice has been defended on the grounds that a change in pitchers has such a volatile impact on the odds. But aren’t there other situations in sports that are at least roughly comparable to Pedro Martinez being replaced as a starter by some mediocrity? Let’s say I place a wager today on the Indianapolis Colts to go over or under 10 victories this season. Then next week, Peyton Manning tears an achilles tendon and Edgerrin James blows out a knee. Didn’t the under on that proposition just get hugely better and the over just get hugely worse? If the odds change, which they surely will, should the bet I already made be adjusted to the new odds?

3. Shouldn’t the line already reflect the degree of uncertainty of whether the scheduled starter will in fact pitch, as well as the magnitude of the impact that such a change would have? That is to say, in deciding what line to put up on a certain game where the pitchers are not specified, I would think that a bookmaker would reason it out something like this:

“If it were absolutely guaranteed that the scheduled starter Pedro Martinez would pitch, then the appropriate line would be about –250. On the other hand, if he were definitely going to be replaced by an ordinary starter, then the appropriate line would be more like –110. But in reality, there are no guarantees. The scheduled starter almost always starts, but occasionally does not. So I’ll compromise with a –240 or –230 line.”

So bettors who want to gamble that Martinez will pitch as scheduled will get a marginally more generous than usual line on the favorite, but once in awhile they’ll get burned. Bettors who bet the underdog will get a slightly less favorable line than they otherwise would, but once in awhile they’ll get a wagering windfall and a golden scalp opportunity. And in the end it’ll roughly even out, if the book has properly calculated the likelihood and impact of such pitching changes.

I’m mostly just playing devil’s advocate here. I assume this way of looking at the situation is flawed, otherwise books wouldn’t use the rule they do. But I’m not sure why it’s flawed. Is it just a matter of books being afraid that they’ll find out about such changes after the bettors do, and thus that both parties are not in fact in conditions of equal uncertainty?