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I’m looking for some help from my Bettorsworld friends. I need your offshore sportsbook recommendations. But before you just groan and ignore this post—-as you would when a newbie asks for such help—-allow me to point out that this differs from the typical such request for advice in two respects. Number one: I’m going to be very specific about what I’m looking for and what factors matter to me, rather than just asking generically, “Duh, hey guys, which books are good?” Number two: I’m open to sending some referral money your way if I sign up with a book because of your feedback. (This is not bonus abuse, of course, but is precisely the point of referral bonuses.)
OK, a little background. I’m primarily interested in NFL football. In my few years of betting offshore, I’ve generally had two to three accounts at a time. This year, I’m tentatively planning on having maybe seven to ten, in order to do more line shopping. From following Bettorsworld for quite awhile now, I have a general idea of some of the books that are most worthy, plus of course I might re-up with some of the books I’ve used in the past, but I’d like your help in making my final decisions.
Here are the factors that matter to me, in roughly descending order of importance:
1. Reliability. I want the places where there is the least chance of being stiffed, the places you are as comfortable with as if you had deposited your money in the FDIC-insured bank down the street. Maybe the places with enough worldwide business that if, say, the United States passed some law that made it a lot harder to bet overseas and thus put a major dent in the books’ American business, these places would be the most likely to survive anyway.
Obviously, being on the Bettorsworld List of recommended sportsbooks is a big plus here. If they’re endorsed by other sites you feel are of high repute, then that’s relevant too. For instance, if you believe in our friend the Devil’s new insurance scheme, then a book that they vouch for would presumably have to be pretty reliable.
2. Customer service. Does everyone the customer deals with speak fluent English? Are they competent and intelligent? Are they courteous? Do they handle problems in a customer-friendly way? Can you take things to a higher, supervisory, level if you need to? Do the phones lines and/or website consistently function efficiently? Etc.
Some posters in other threads seem to want books to adhere to strict rules to ensure that customers will never be treated unfairly. I understand this sentiment, but I suspect that no matter how you write your rules, there will always be gaps and ambiguities and situations that require some interpretation, where the book simply has to use some discretion. In such close calls, do they tend to bend over backwards to be fair to the player, or do they tend to look for an angle to interpret things in their own short term interest against the player?
Quite frankly, style as well as substance matters to me. There’s a big difference to me between a situation where I can say, “Well, eventually I got what I was entitled to and wasn’t cheated, but, man, I’m exhausted having to fight and claw and haggle to get there!” versus dealing with a book where they just seem like the kind of cool people it would be fun to hang out with if I ever get down to their part of the world (like the stories we hear of some of the travels of the Bettorsworld crazies and their interactions with the offshore folk).
3. Vig deals. I’m always interested in 7% vig, 5% vig, 2% vig, no vig on certain days, etc. Do they offer attractive odds on parlays and teasers and such?
4. Bonuses. How much do they offer to sign up? Do you also get a bonus to reload? How burdensome are their minimum play requirements to get the bonus?
(Obviously, factors like #3 and #4 cannot override #1. All else being equal, we’d all love to get 40% sign-up bonuses and pay 2% vig on straight wagers, but of course I want nothing to do with places that are giving away so much money on paper that there is a significant risk you’ll never be able to withdraw that money in reality.)
5. Variety of betting options. The more the better. Some of these I like to bet, some I might want to try in the future, and others probably not, but it’s good to have as many options as possible. Do they have a full menu of NFL futures, including over/unders on total victories? Plenty of parlays and teasers? Half time lines? “Action points,” or whatever else it’s called where it matters not only that you’re on the correct side of the spread, but by how much? “Betting-in-progress” like posters have talked about at the Dunes? Proposition bets?
6. Money transfers. Do they pick up the fee on deposits or withdrawals or both? Is the process simple and straightforward? Do they have liberal policies concerning transfers with other books? It’s not a huge deal to me that withdrawals be available every single day or that the money arrive in the shortest possible time, but are they at least reasonably good in these areas?
7. Limits. I’ll probably typically bet $100-$200 per play, but maybe I’ll want to make a “fun” wager of $20 or $50 occasionally on something I don’t feel strongly about. Or maybe some friends will want me to throw some extra on a bet for them, and I’ll end up betting $500-$1000. I want a place that won’t give me the cold shoulder for betting $50, but not a place so rinky-dink that they panic and immediately flag my account as a monster bettor if I want to bet $1000.
8. Line variation. Since I’m going to use more books than usual precisely so as to be able to line shop, I’d prefer places that tend to sometimes differ from the herd. There’s not much point in going through the hassle of joining up with another book if their lines are invariably in between the extremes of what you could get elsewhere.
9. Web-based wagering. So far, I’ve placed almost all of my offshore bets by phone, but one of my goals this season is to switch to all or mostly internet betting, so I’d prefer books that have good, efficient, customer-friendly web pages to wager through.
10. Don Best. I’m not a big time enough player to warrant the $495 or whatever it is for the deluxe version, but I’d like to use the freebie Island Express to facilitate line shopping, so I’d prefer books that are on that feed. (Also, of course, being on Don Best presumably has some relevance to #1 as well.)
11. Low risk of being booted. I doubt I’ll win so much so consistently as to scare any reputable book, and I don’t intend to play exclusively scalps, follow steam, etc. I’ll hopefully do some intelligent line shopping, but I’ll be playing my own picks in a straightforward way. Still, it sounds like some books are extremely thin-skinned about this, and looking for any excuse to boot anyone who even might win occasionally, so I may as well include this as a factor.
12. Other sports. As I say, I’m mostly interested in NFL wagering, but I might put an occasional bet down on boxing, baseball, basketball, college football, etc. I’m pretty much indifferent to soccer or other sports that would not be considered the “major” sports from an American perspective.
13. As a final factor, I’ll just say that all else being equal, in choosing which books to reward with my business, I’d prefer to use those that offer the best deals to customers even in ways that do not directly affect me. That is, even though I’ll likely bet little or no baseball, did they give my Bettorsworld brethren a break by sticking with the 10 cent line this season? Do they treat the players who bet even less than me with respect? Do they treat the scalpers fairly? Do they refrain from using misleading marketing tactics that others might be taken in by even if I happen to see through them (e.g., making “match play” bonuses sound like regular bonuses, equating even money bets with “no juice” bets, etc.)? Do they offer attractive betting options for sports I’m not interested in, but other Bettorsworld folks are? And so on.
OK, hope this is specific enough for you. Which book(s) would you recommend to someone in my position, and why? Thanks.
OK, a little background. I’m primarily interested in NFL football. In my few years of betting offshore, I’ve generally had two to three accounts at a time. This year, I’m tentatively planning on having maybe seven to ten, in order to do more line shopping. From following Bettorsworld for quite awhile now, I have a general idea of some of the books that are most worthy, plus of course I might re-up with some of the books I’ve used in the past, but I’d like your help in making my final decisions.
Here are the factors that matter to me, in roughly descending order of importance:
1. Reliability. I want the places where there is the least chance of being stiffed, the places you are as comfortable with as if you had deposited your money in the FDIC-insured bank down the street. Maybe the places with enough worldwide business that if, say, the United States passed some law that made it a lot harder to bet overseas and thus put a major dent in the books’ American business, these places would be the most likely to survive anyway.
Obviously, being on the Bettorsworld List of recommended sportsbooks is a big plus here. If they’re endorsed by other sites you feel are of high repute, then that’s relevant too. For instance, if you believe in our friend the Devil’s new insurance scheme, then a book that they vouch for would presumably have to be pretty reliable.
2. Customer service. Does everyone the customer deals with speak fluent English? Are they competent and intelligent? Are they courteous? Do they handle problems in a customer-friendly way? Can you take things to a higher, supervisory, level if you need to? Do the phones lines and/or website consistently function efficiently? Etc.
Some posters in other threads seem to want books to adhere to strict rules to ensure that customers will never be treated unfairly. I understand this sentiment, but I suspect that no matter how you write your rules, there will always be gaps and ambiguities and situations that require some interpretation, where the book simply has to use some discretion. In such close calls, do they tend to bend over backwards to be fair to the player, or do they tend to look for an angle to interpret things in their own short term interest against the player?
Quite frankly, style as well as substance matters to me. There’s a big difference to me between a situation where I can say, “Well, eventually I got what I was entitled to and wasn’t cheated, but, man, I’m exhausted having to fight and claw and haggle to get there!” versus dealing with a book where they just seem like the kind of cool people it would be fun to hang out with if I ever get down to their part of the world (like the stories we hear of some of the travels of the Bettorsworld crazies and their interactions with the offshore folk).
3. Vig deals. I’m always interested in 7% vig, 5% vig, 2% vig, no vig on certain days, etc. Do they offer attractive odds on parlays and teasers and such?
4. Bonuses. How much do they offer to sign up? Do you also get a bonus to reload? How burdensome are their minimum play requirements to get the bonus?
(Obviously, factors like #3 and #4 cannot override #1. All else being equal, we’d all love to get 40% sign-up bonuses and pay 2% vig on straight wagers, but of course I want nothing to do with places that are giving away so much money on paper that there is a significant risk you’ll never be able to withdraw that money in reality.)
5. Variety of betting options. The more the better. Some of these I like to bet, some I might want to try in the future, and others probably not, but it’s good to have as many options as possible. Do they have a full menu of NFL futures, including over/unders on total victories? Plenty of parlays and teasers? Half time lines? “Action points,” or whatever else it’s called where it matters not only that you’re on the correct side of the spread, but by how much? “Betting-in-progress” like posters have talked about at the Dunes? Proposition bets?
6. Money transfers. Do they pick up the fee on deposits or withdrawals or both? Is the process simple and straightforward? Do they have liberal policies concerning transfers with other books? It’s not a huge deal to me that withdrawals be available every single day or that the money arrive in the shortest possible time, but are they at least reasonably good in these areas?
7. Limits. I’ll probably typically bet $100-$200 per play, but maybe I’ll want to make a “fun” wager of $20 or $50 occasionally on something I don’t feel strongly about. Or maybe some friends will want me to throw some extra on a bet for them, and I’ll end up betting $500-$1000. I want a place that won’t give me the cold shoulder for betting $50, but not a place so rinky-dink that they panic and immediately flag my account as a monster bettor if I want to bet $1000.
8. Line variation. Since I’m going to use more books than usual precisely so as to be able to line shop, I’d prefer places that tend to sometimes differ from the herd. There’s not much point in going through the hassle of joining up with another book if their lines are invariably in between the extremes of what you could get elsewhere.
9. Web-based wagering. So far, I’ve placed almost all of my offshore bets by phone, but one of my goals this season is to switch to all or mostly internet betting, so I’d prefer books that have good, efficient, customer-friendly web pages to wager through.
10. Don Best. I’m not a big time enough player to warrant the $495 or whatever it is for the deluxe version, but I’d like to use the freebie Island Express to facilitate line shopping, so I’d prefer books that are on that feed. (Also, of course, being on Don Best presumably has some relevance to #1 as well.)
11. Low risk of being booted. I doubt I’ll win so much so consistently as to scare any reputable book, and I don’t intend to play exclusively scalps, follow steam, etc. I’ll hopefully do some intelligent line shopping, but I’ll be playing my own picks in a straightforward way. Still, it sounds like some books are extremely thin-skinned about this, and looking for any excuse to boot anyone who even might win occasionally, so I may as well include this as a factor.
12. Other sports. As I say, I’m mostly interested in NFL wagering, but I might put an occasional bet down on boxing, baseball, basketball, college football, etc. I’m pretty much indifferent to soccer or other sports that would not be considered the “major” sports from an American perspective.
13. As a final factor, I’ll just say that all else being equal, in choosing which books to reward with my business, I’d prefer to use those that offer the best deals to customers even in ways that do not directly affect me. That is, even though I’ll likely bet little or no baseball, did they give my Bettorsworld brethren a break by sticking with the 10 cent line this season? Do they treat the players who bet even less than me with respect? Do they treat the scalpers fairly? Do they refrain from using misleading marketing tactics that others might be taken in by even if I happen to see through them (e.g., making “match play” bonuses sound like regular bonuses, equating even money bets with “no juice” bets, etc.)? Do they offer attractive betting options for sports I’m not interested in, but other Bettorsworld folks are? And so on.
OK, hope this is specific enough for you. Which book(s) would you recommend to someone in my position, and why? Thanks.
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