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Czech Betting Stories Part 1

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  • Czech Betting Stories Part 1

    So after a 6-year career of betting over-the-counter in the Czech betting shops I thought I'd share a few stories and let you all know about the sports betting atmosphere there.

    First I'll start by telling you a bit a about formats, laws, betting styles etc. Czechs use the standard European coefficient odds (e.g. +100 is 2.00, -200 is 1.5) There used to be more, but now there are only 3 shops that compete with each other: Tipsport, Chance and Fortuna. It's good for the bettor because they really do compete with one another ... Czechs tend to bet favourites and you'll often see a book open a team 1.30 and then the other 2 will follow at 1.31 and 1.32. The industry is well regulated and anyone opening a shop has to put up 6 000 000 CZK (1 USD ~= 38 CZK so that's about 150 000 USD) as a deposit (not a fee) to insure they have enough to pay out clients in case they run into trouble. I think there is a law that regulates the maximum %age advantage a bet offer may have but I'm not sure. Standard bet offers are sky high by say, American standards anyway e.g. a pick 'em line would run at 1.8-1.8 for both sides and a typical even soccer game would be 2.7-2.7-2.7 (both of those have a 11.1% edge for the house, more than twice as much as a Vegas NFL line which is 4.7%).

    It gets worse: there is a 5% tax on the risk amount of the wager PAID WHETHER YOU WIN OR LOSE, which is a nightmare. So if you wager 1000 CZK at odds of 2.00 you are actually risking 1050 CZK to win 950 CZK, turning the "effective odds" of the bet into 1.90.

    I made all my bets straight up when I first went down there and really struggled with this tax at first and then realized I could minimize it's effects by betting parlays. It seems so obvious to me now but it took a while to figure out ... I was convinced for a long time that 5% was 5% and I couldn't do anything about it. I'm sure in other countries with this type of tax you'e been through all this long ago. I started betting parlays so that the total odds on the ticket were somewhere between 3.00 and 5.00. The parlays gave the advantage that if you hit the first game, it gave you bet on the next game equal to your payout, but WITHOUT THE TAX.

    There was another reason I had to go to parlays: limits. Limits weren't a problem when I first got there because I was practically broke, but as my bankroll increased it became one. Read this and tell me if it doesn't seem backward: The limits for a ticket with one game on it was for a clean win (not total payout, but total profit) of 10000 CZK (about 250 USD) but if you put more games on your ticket they went up! For example, 2-4 games on a ticket was 20000 CZK and 5 or more was 50000 CZK. What does this tell you? It tell me that limits are in place not because the book can't afford to pay, but because it doesn't trust it's ability to set proper odds!

    More to come but I think I'll take a break in order to avoid a monster-sized posting.

  • #2
    PC,

    I have several questions for you.

    1) Which one of the three books you mentioned is the biggest.
    2) Which one is the first with regards to odds posting.
    3) After using Tipsport odds for two years i have an impression that the majority of events, like first rounds in tennis tournaments must be bet in trebles. is it correct?
    4) How often do major differences in odds among those three books occur?
    5) What is your opinion, do Czech books make their tennis odds independently or they use some other sources? I think almost all the time Czechs are the first in the world with the tennis odds.

    Ok, I think that is it for the time being. Thank you in advance.

    Comment


    • #3
      On the limits issue.

      I think it is a wise rule that maximum pay out increases as the number of events in a parlay does.
      Consider, for example, fixed games etc. And anyway any book wants to encourage the customers to bet parlays.
      Btw, I believe that British books have a simular rule.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's tough enough to win but if you won even with the tax, low limits, and increased juice you must know your soccer.

        Comment


        • #5
          alec,

          1) Good question and I wish I could answer confidently. Fortuna I think was number one in 1994 when I first got there but my guess now is 1. Tipsport 2. Chance 3. Fortuna. I just get that impression from their comparative professionalism (by Czech standards, which are woefully low) and by how easily it is to bet their maximums (often they will let you bet again without changing the odds after a max. bet). However, I don't think there is a big difference between #1 and #3.

          2) Tipsport first and then Fortuna and Chance seem to lag behind them together.

          3) Well, from what I've read on their website for foreign bettors yes, everything is trebles and all sports seem to be treated equally (in terms of limits) But get this: Betting over the counter in person you can do anything solo! This clearly shows they are not scared of the Czech punter and from what I've seen they definitely need not be (not ONCE did I ever meet anyone who would pass as a professional ... the shops are just packed with everyone slapping down 12-team parlays filled with heavy favourites) And here's the punchline: if you look at their website they offer better odds on their Czech version than they do in other languages! (or at least they did a few months ago for some sports, e.g. NBA)

          4) All the time. Almost always. A difference of say, 1.5 on one site vs. 1.65 on another is normal. Check it out yourself if you want: www.tipsport.cz, www.chance.cz, and www.fortuna-sazky.cz ... click on "Nabidka" to get the offer sheet. Fortuna is generally the one that will always have more expensive favourites.

          5) I have no idea but I would not be surprised at all if they did them themselves. I am amazed at the variety they offer ... they will literally have odds on every single professional tennis match played every year. Czech loves tennis ... it is a close second behind soccer for favourite non-winter sport.

          I guess you're right about the bookmaker wanting to encourage parlays but it is also true that a punter who feels he has an edge on every game he plays will also get a greater %age return on his parlay and in his case it is definitely his advantage to play it if there is a flat tax on his stake.

          Comment


          • #6
            bucky,

            I actually won mostly on North American sports ... juicy details to follow soon ...

            Comment


            • #7
              PC,

              Thanks a lot for so detailed response.

              I think I should tell you several words about myself. I used to work in a sports book in Kiev during 1997-1999. I had been dealing with tennis most of the time. (If you or anybody else is interested in what is sports betting in Ukraine I can give some details.) So I checked Tipsport's web site every morning.

              In a few words, I love Tipsport very much. I believe they are one of the world leaders in the betting industry, with respect to odds making at least. And I think you are too harsh on them. Since Czechs often are the only ones in the world offering some events for betting, 1.8/1.8 line is not too bad.

              To the best of my knowledge Tipsport has very good tennis odds, especially taking into consideration the amount of stuff they offer: Challengers, doubles etc. I doubt anybody in the world except of Czechs offers such things.

              I noticed a long time ago that Tipsport had slightly better odds on their Czech version and in fact they don't even post odds for some events on their English version, like earlier rounds of doubles in tennis etc.

              It is a real surprise for me to find out that inside Czechia you can bet any event as singleton. Since they have odds for such events as Russian soccer, it is really interesting.

              Now, if you don't mind, several more questions. I understand that you may not know the exact answers, because you have not worked in a sports book in Czechia, in such case please give just your opinion.

              1) Does any one of the three books have significant number of foreign customers?
              2) Do they have any ambitious plans outside Czechia? I know that Tipsport, for example, post odds on CNN teletext and they used to have some pages on Eurosport as well.
              3) Approximately how many people are involved in odds making in each firm and how well are they payed?

              Thanks.

              P.S. I am really impressed by this $150 000 deposit requirement. It is a huge amount of money for Ukraine and in this respect Ukraine is far behind.

              Comment


              • #8
                alec,

                Ukraine stuff sounds interesting. Please do write some.

                AV

                Comment


                • #9
                  Alec:

                  Do you really think $150,000 is a big amount for Ukraine??? Especially when PM Lazerenko laundered $850 million in banks around the world??

                  PCzech:

                  Do the Czech online shops accept US Residents? If so what is time length of distribution of funds???

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Fedya,

                    By "for Ukraine" I actually meant Ukrainian sports books, not Lazarenko. But even in more general sense, it is still true. What is average salary in Ukraine? $50, $70 per month?

                    AV2,
                    OK. I can do the same thing about Ukraine as PC did. If you have any specific questions, let me know.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      alec,

                      I wish I could help you but didn't get to see much from the other side of the counter as I was strictly a bettor.

                      1) From inside the shops (no idea about over the phone - actually, I'm pretty sure Tipsport is the only one that offers phone betting) I think I could count the number of non-Czechs that I heard on one hand.

                      2) Tipsport is the only one it seems looking to international markets. I have seen their stuff on teletext on CNN and Eurosport as well but not much else. They do offer USD and DEM accounts over the phone.

                      3) Sorry can't help you here. No idea. (Would not be surprised if they are paid lousy, but that's just a feeling)

                      FF,

                      I never bet over the phone and like I said I think Tipsport is the only one that does it. I would not recommend them at all because it's all trebles and the juice they take is just laughable (e.g. a pick' em game in the NBA is -140 on each side PLUS you lose if it goes into OT)

                      Maybe I'm being a little harsh on them but I don't have a lot of nice memories dealing with Czech companies in general so it's hard to be objective. Still, I'm not exaggerating with my NBA example ...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        PC,

                        Thanks. Can you tell about sports books from Slovakia a little bit? As far as I know they offer very simular lines. The only book that I have heard of is Terno www.terno.sk Is this book in some way affiliated with someone in Czech Republic?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          No info on Slovakia sorry. Czech books were formed in 1991 so I assumed they operated there before the split in 1993 but I don't know if they still do today.

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