Caribi rant ... or not ...

[mls]

Recently I have blasted players who pound lines they know are human errors and then bet the other side somewhere else at the correct line, thereby guaranteeing themselves a scalp profit (say $300 risk free for example).

My view was that taking advantage of an obvious line error to guarantee yourself a profit is not gambling, but outright stealing ... let me emphasize that I mean a wrong line you have no doubt was an innocent human error.

Caribi has caused me to reassess my position ...

This morning I called Caribi to bet $1000 on Tiger vs Field at +205. There was considerable confusion because the clerk did not realize that their Tiger vs. "All Others" was the same thing as Tiger vs. Field.

Anyway in all the confusion (and a bad cell phone connection) I ended up with a dime on "All Others" (at -235) rather than Tiger.

Within 2 minutes I replayed the conversation in my head and called back to double check my bet.

The line had not moved and it was not post time yet. Nevertheless the clerk, then a manager, said they could not change my bet from "All Others" to Tiger.

They suggested I make a double bet on Tiger to offset the bad bet. What else could I do - I bet $2000 on Tiger, thereby losing $300 in juice for my error.

Now I have done this three times before (once every 200 bets or so) with WSEX and Carib. In all three instances the line had also not moved and I called back within 3-4 minutes (after checking my pending bets on my computer screen). Each time they immediately agreed to reverse my bet with no problem.

Now I can understand Caribi seeing an opportunity to make risk free $300 juice due to my "obvious error" ....

But this is the same thing, "something for nothing ... or greed in the face of obvious human error" which I have blasted bettors about.

I E-mailed Monty at Caribi this moring about this but got no response so I bring it here.

Now remember, it was, without any doubt my obvious error -

Why, under the very same circumstances, did WSEX and Carib immediately agree to reverse my bet but Caribi refused ... is it just a customer service issue ...

Do I owe those bettors that have sought to pound obvious human errors at books an apology? Is it open season on books and bettors alike ...

[bucky]

What's right is right and what is wrong is wrong. Perhaps, you should just play with books that are willing to work with you like that. It would be wrong to try to take advantage of Caribi next time they make an error.

[This message has been edited by bucky (edited 07-06-2000).]

[Segundo]

To add to this I was thinking about this today and I thought, in order for me to know that there is an obvious error on a line with a bookie, then I would have to know what the market is on that event. Thus I say to myself "why should I, the player, have to be responsible for knowing what the market is on an event, why should I have to pay 500 a month for a line service, so that I can do the bookies job for him? Anything that is ridiculously off, I can understand. But if a baseball game is off 30-40 cents who am I to say what is right or wrong. I make numbers on games every day and I am usually off by 30-40 cents on at least 2 or three games. I just want to wager, write the ****ing ticket please".

I think that Monty will let you reverse it, his clerks/managers do not have the authority to do that. You could have been a spotter sent in by Monty to see if his people are giving the house away, you never know. Also, he is probably too smashed to have even sat down in front of a computer let alone respond to your e-mail, he will take care of it, you'll see.

[ShiftySheik]

Some books will accomodate the player that makes a mistake and wants to reverse a bet...other books say no. A few books that have reversed bets for me are Carib, Oasis and Dunes. There have been other times where I had to pay the juice to fix a mistake. Kudos to those books that saved me some juice.

[bucky]

Segundo,
Yes, I know what you are saying but you will wear out your welcome real fast if it doesn't look like an accident or if it is the only bet you made that week. Too much of a coincidence. And you run the risk of the bet being voided and the wrong side winning. You end up outsmarting yourself. I say more like 10 cents unless you caLL AND VERIFY.

[sportshobby]

mls, you're right that it should go both ways, and the book should CLEARLY post which way their rules are. (1) A bet is a bet, even players errors and book's errors; or (2) Errors can be cancelled by both sides before an event starts.

Of course, NEVER should either side have the opportunity to cancel a wager after an event starts.

[Ronbets]

MLS,

Yes, betting and obvious wrong line is stealing! Agree. BUT because you make an error your morals change? Wait a minute here, a multi-dime player "flips" because of $300 juice and only if the dog wins.

MLS, you'r pissed and not being rational. You called back after your error and a clerk/manager wouldn't let you change. Maybe someone bought the other side in the interim? If that is not the case, the main guy will take care of it for you. His track record is too good not to.--Ron

[sportshobby]

Ron, the thing is, most books reserve the right to cancel a wager if the odds are an error on their part. MLS is justified in saying that the player, also, should have this right, particularly if the posted odds have not changed in the interim.

[mls]

Ronbets:

I am not sure a "morals change" is a correct description. I have backed the books because from what I have observed they simply do not look to take unfair advantage of an obvious error by a bettor.

On the other hand, it has to be a level playing field. If Caribi feels it is OK to take advantage of obvious player errors, requested corrected within 2 minutes and at absolutely no unfair disadvantage to the book, why shouldn't the books be liable for their own obvious errors?

Certainly nothing the manager said remotely sounded like he had gotten another $1000 bet on Tiger within the 2 minutes it took me to cal back. It was just too much trouble to correct the bet --- pure and simple.

I neither "flipped" nor am I particularly "pissed". Last week I dropped 5 dimes on a golf matchup by one shot (bogey on 17 on last round) - then I was pissed! For $300 - a nice dinner for 4 - honestly it is not a big deal.

I simply do not like double standards or hypocrisy.

[Dot Mix]

What I would do mls is talk to someone who can make a decision as to whether or not they want to lose you as a customer. If you've been pounding them and they consider you a "wiseguy" that may very well be the case. I'd almost bet thats the case.

I've made plays in error with WSEX and a couple of other books and called right back and had plays changed with no problem. This almost sounds like it was their error and/or actually a communications problem. Any book who is not interested in doing this with a reasonable time cushion doesn't care about customer service. I would have to pull my funds if I got no satisfaction unless your getting dream lines that can't be had at any of the other reputable books.

Good luck...Dot

[zippy]

In all fairness to the book though, mls, I don’t think the two types of error are really analogous. Let’s say that as a result of a typo, a book takes a bet at +210 when really they had intended the line to be +120. If they later cancel the wager on the grounds that the line was in error, they can easily prove it by citing how far off they were from all the other books. They can rightly say that since no book would intentionally hang a number like +210 for this game, their having done so was an obvious error.

But in the case of a bettor who intends to bet Team A –110 but inadvertently bets Team B –110, where’s the obvious error? The line was reasonable, and taking either side was a reasonable play. It might well be that the player made an honest mistake, but there’s not the same kind of objective evidence for this as there is in the former case. The book can’t read the bettor’s mind to know what he intended to do.

It doesn’t follow from this that the book should necessarily refuse to cancel your wager at your request in such a situation. I would say that while they are not obligated to do so, under ordinary circumstances it would be sound customer relations to allow such a cancellation. If they refuse to cancel it, then they are missing a chance to score some p.r. points by doing you a favor, but they aren’t cheating you.

You’re right to call for consistency. If the books are to be immune from being disadvantaged by their obvious errors, then the players should not be disadvantaged by their obvious errors. I just question whether the case you described is an obvious error. (An obvious error by a player would be something more like, if I have long established a pattern of betting about $20 per game online, and then my finger slips and I inadvertently submit a $200 or $2000 wager, and then immediately call before the event and explain what I did. To me, this is more analogous to the case where a book puts up a line that is obviously not what they intended.)

[krackman]

I have had plays for the same amount changed by the Dunes and Nasa in the same situations just to name a few. What is amazing is when you ask for a manager/supervisor/owner don't these guys realize what bad press can do to them .......

[sportshobby]

Zippy, you're right that there is no way to tell if the player mistake was really a mistake. So my fairness argument really isn't totally correct.

But considering that the books get to correct their obvious errors, I believe any sportsbook that wants to keep their customers would honor such a request if (a) the price hasn't changed, and (b)the player doesn't make such requests often.

[thedevil]

Most books post in their rules that once a bet is verified by the clerk and the customer signs off on it it is a bet.. However Dot posted the key words... If you call right back. Most places(not all) will reverse your bet. You have no idea how irritating it is when a customer calls back an hour or two after making a play and want's to make a change then.. As Segundo said Monty wasn't there or he would have changed it in a second. If you lost the three hundred in juice I would call Monty and I'm sure he will give you a credit for the $300.

See Mls books are no different than customers.. we all make mistakes.. things have a way of evening out.. beat a store on a real bad number today and tomorrow the other team will score 7 in the bottom of the ninth to beat you..

THE DEVIL

[mls]

How the story ends:

Well for 3 days neither Monty or anyone else at Caribi ever answered my E-mail about this.

Finally I bought some 3 Tigers at WSEX at $17 each so my mistake ended up costing me only $50.

For $50 though I learned something very important about Caribi.

There are too many solid books out there to bother with one like Caribi that ignores E-mails and generally cares little for customer service.

I praised Caribi on several occasions on this forum for their decision to go with a dime baseball line - and I have played into Caribi if lines were equal - so much for loyalty to customers ...

Oh well, I'll keep a small balance there for special opportunities and move on to another book for football season which believes in customer service.

Lesson learned ...