Book Cancels $20,000 Winning Bet

[skeptic]

60 cents is an obvious error. This should be grounds to cancel the bet, BEFORE the game.

What kind of place is this that takes such high limits on overnights without monitoring what is coming in? They had at least 12 hours to find out.

Who is it?

[mls]

According to Boomer it is fair, honest, and honorable to scam books:

(a) use aliases to steal multiple bonuses;
(b) manipulate software despite explicit warnings against same in the rules;
(c) pound lines that a blind woman would know is an obvious error.

This guy - like Boomer - when caught cries "foul" and demands his ill-gotten gains be paid.

If there is a threat to this industry it is guys like Boomer and this guy who believe that they have the right to scam books on the theory that any bet taken has to be paid, regardless of the rules.

Maybe this guy is Boomer, maybe not, but they are certainly cut from the same cloth.

I loved Boomer's response to Chester when Boomer admitted using "employees" to scam multiple bonuses, "Sure I did it (ha-ha), but really I won't do it anymore, let's be friends ... oh, by the way, I'm keeping all the extra bonuses I scammed (ha-ha)."

The fact the mark is book does not make a scam or outright stealing right ...

[Boomer]

Reality,

Speaking for strictly myself, could you please try and use upper and lower case. Every time you post you seem so angry.

Seriously though, I know you have a handle on the biz, and believe me, I agree with you 100%.

But this was a lesson I had to learn the hard way. And the lesson was as follows: the more the lines are slow or off, the more likely you are not to get paid.

Believe me when I say, up until a couple of months ago, I did not know this. I looked for books that were "slow on the draw" and played my middles and took scalps. When my coin went from Point A to Point B, I assumed collecting my profits was a no-brainer.

As I've come to learn, "if you win 5 or 6 thousand, you'll probably get paid. If you win 10 dimes or more, you MAY get paid."

That's the truth. I didn't create that saying, but truer words were never spoken.

[REALITY]

BOOMER,
EVERYWHERE I POST I USE THE SAME DISCLAIMER,I'M A HORRIBLE TYPIST AND IT TAKES ME FOREVER TO TYPE UP A POST SO I USE CAPS ONLY.

I COULD USE LOWER CASE ONLY BUT I DON'T LIKE THE WAY IT LOOKS.

I THINK YOU HAVE READ SOME OF MY POSTS BEFORE SO I THINK YOU'LL KNOW WHEN I'M ANGRY OR HAVE AN AX TO GRIND...

I'M NOT YELLING,I'M KEYBOARD IMPAIRED...

[REALITY]

MLBFAN,
YOU HAVE MADE THE INITIAL POST AND IN OVER 12 HOURS YOU HAVE COME BACK WITH NO RESPONSE.

IF I CAME HERE SEEKING HELP TRYING TO COLLECT 20 LARGE I WOULD BE GLUED TO MY COMPUTER TO SEE WHAT DEVELOPS.

ARE YOU POSSIBLY AS HAS BEEN NOTED A LESS THAN HONORABLE INDIVIDUAL?

IS THERE SOMETHING YOU HAVE LEFT OUT OF YOUR STORY?

I THINK THE POSTERS HERE DESERVE THE SAME COURTESY THEY SHOWED YOU BY POSTING.

IF YOU DON'T WEIGH IN SOON ON THE ISSUES ADDRESSED HERE THEN I DON'T FEEL YOU DESERVE THE COURTESY OF ANYMORE POSTS.

P.S.
BOOMER,
PLEASE NOTE NOW I'M GETTING A LITTLE TESTY,WHICH IS THE PRELUDE TO ANGRY,WHICH LEADS TO PMS.

POSTING MADLY SYNDROME...

[thedevil]

Reality,

I agree with you (almost).

Your right, if I was sitting in the box this could have happened once or twice. But it would have been stopped.

There should be exceptions to every rule. Nothing is written in stone(well not anymore anyway). You know as well as I do that sometimes you come to an impass with customers where you believe your right and so does he. What do you do in that situation? Usually you come to some kind of an agreement that leaves both parties if not happy at least satisfied. There have been plenty of times where I paid the claim 100% knowing full well that I was in the right but the customer was too good to lose over the amount in dispute, so I gave in. But you also know that there are times when your being robbed and try to settle for less than 100% on the dollar.

We don't know what transpired between the store and the customer when he took the $8200. Did he settle with the store and now figure he can get more.Did the store settle with him and now feel they're getting leaned on after the fact.

I always felt the same way you do that NASA should pay BW and THE YOU BOOKED IT YOU PAY IT should apply to all bets accepted from all books. Internet software doesn't do the same job as being in the box where you have everything happening in front of you. Bets show up in the chart and on a lot of software you dont even see the parlays until you think you won x amount for the day and didn't. Then you go looking for the plays that took down the cash and find where the dough went.

This book wasn't smart enough to realize he was a carcas being eaten by a few buzzards until it was too late. After giving them a few toes and an ear he decided to give them some lip.

Over the years you and I along with the Spiros and Monty's and all the rest have been beaten by guys that were sharper then us once or twice. But we were able to adjust quickly and correct what we were doing wrong.

The point I'm trying to make here is that I believe this store is either a rookie store or a store with a rookie bookie. Guys with little or no knowledge come into this business with their fathers money and think they are going to get rich. Well brother it don't happen that way. You learn by taking lessons and this guy got one.

However, if he did make an agreeable settlement with the customer this issue should be dead...... it shouldn't reserface after the deal was consumated..

MLBFAN where are you... Give us some more info. Reality is starting to get angry and we don't want him to start using the bigggg caps.

THE DEVIL

[This message has been edited by thedevil (edited 07-01-2000).]

[REALITY]

DEVIL,
FROM WHAT I HEARD ABOUT YOU,IT COULD ONLY HAPPEN ONCE...

IN MY HUMBLE OPINION THE TIME FACTOR INVOLVED HERE WHICH IS SIMILAR TO THE NASA/BW FIASCO MAKES THIS A NO BRAINER.

ARE YOU TELLING ME THAT THE BOOK IN QUESTION NEVER LOOKED AT THIS INDIVIDUALS WORK AND NOTICED HE IS GETTING THE BEST OF ME ON THE OVERNIGHT LINE.

YOU ARE ON LINE SO WE ARE TALKING COMPUTERS HERE.

IF YOUR COMPUTER HAS THE QUERY CAPABILITY YOU RUN A DAILY QUERY ON YESTERDAYS TOP TEN WINNERS.

THESE SHEETS ARE PUNCHED AND KEPT IN A LEDGER.

AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME DON'T YOU SEE A PATTERN EMERGING RELATING TO CONSISTENT PAYOUTS AND CONSISTENT BEATING OF THE OVERNIGHT LINE?

IF YOU DON'T HAVE QUERY CAPABILITY,DON'T YOU EXAMINE THE PAYOUTS AND THE WORK THAT HAS RESULTED IN THE PAYOUTS?

I'M SORRY,EVEN IF THIS IS A CONCERTED EFFORT BY TWO PLAYERS TO BEAT THE SYSTEM,THE BOOK HAS TO BE SHARP ENOUGH TO SEE IT COMING OR ELSE HE SHOULD BE DOING SOMETHING ELSE.

IF THE PLAYER WAS WARNED ABOUT THIS AND USED A TACTIC TO CIRCUMVENT THE LIMIT,THEN THERE IS POSSIBLY SOME GROUNDS FOR NON-PAYMENT.

IF THE STORY IS AS STATED I BELIEVE HE HAS TO GET PAID.

MLBFAN STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND ADDRESS SOME OF THE ISSUES HERE.

GIVE THE POSTERS HERE THE SAME COURTESY THEY GAVE YOU!

REALITY

[Segundo]

Why does mlbfan have to respond? It's obvious to me that he and the book have an agreement to see what transpires here first, objectively, and without naming the book or the player. There have been good points made each way on this but I think without a doubt he should be paid. Also, maybe he was scared of not getting anything at all and wanted to grab the 8200 first before moving on his point about the 20,000. If I am worried about someone paying me I'll take anything I can get.

[REALITY]

SEGUNDO,
HE NEEDS TO RESPOND BECAUSE THE POSTERS HERE HAVE RAISED SOME SERIOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE LEGITIMACY OF HIS CLAIM.

[thedevil]

Reality,

Thanks for the kudos.

Agree on almost all points. Think we need to hear from mlbfan. Need more info.

DEVIL

[REALITY]

HUMOR ALERT:I THOUGHT THIS WAS PRETTY FUNNY...

Originally posted by REALITY:
NOW BOYS LET'S PLAY NICE...

ALL OF A SUDDEN THOSE FIVE LITTLE POINTS IN THE TOPIC:WHAT IS A GREAT BOOK, DON'T LOOK SO BARE BONES AND LITTLE ANYMORE...

GETTING PAID IS NOT A GIVEN...

IF YOU ARE SMART ENOUGH TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF A SITUATION YOU BETTER BELIEVE YOUR NOT THE ONLY ONE MILKING THE COW!

EVENTUALLY THE COW IS GOING TO RUN OUT OF MILK AND SOMEONE IS GOING TO EAT HIS CORN FLAKES DRY...

STAY WITH THE REPUTABLE DAIRY FARMERS WHO DON'T ALLOW THEMSELVES TO GET MILKED AND YOU WON'T HAVE TO COME TO THIS FORUM ASKING THE AGE OLD QUESTION:

GOT MILK?

THIS POST EDITED BY THE DAIRY FARMERS OF THE OFF-SHORE FARMERS ASSOCIATION...

[AYCE]

The more you look at this story, the more you will think the "bad line" is not the key here.

The keys are

1) the guy and "his friend",
2) the $4000 limit,
3) and something else we don't know.

Think about this, the guy played $4000 on parlays, NOT STRAIGHT BET.

If the bad line is the only reason, the book had no ground whatsoever to hold his winnings on the other 2 games, which given those are "normal games and normal lines" (roughly around $8500) but instead, the book hold the total amount of $20000.

Obvisouly, something is missing here...

[Scott Landau]

Yes, REALITY, your 'dairy farmer' post was hilarious. Obvisouly!

[bbuster]

The issue that most concerns me is when books take bets that have a slow or bad line and then cancel the bet after it wins. I might not like it if my bets get cancelled before the game or I get thrown out for being too sharp, but I'll get over it.
What I can't let slide is the fact that the book is making mistakes in their lines and then putting themselves in a freeroll situation against the player. The game wins "bet stands" the game loses "no bet" What the F... is that. What happened to the "Golden Rule of Bookmaking" If a bet cant win then it cant lose?
Now obviously if Nebraska is -29 against Kansas and I play Nebraska +29 cause they have the line reversed, I am stealing, but when a line is pk and it should be 3 1/2, I am getting an advantage and I will slowly take your money, but it is no where even close to "hacking into my computer and taking money". All day everyday 3 1/2 pt favorites lose straight up.

[REALITY]

Originally posted by Scott Landau:
Yes, REALITY, your 'dairy farmer' post was hilarious. Obvisouly!

SCOTT,
THANK YOU,NOW I CAN GO FOR LEMON ICE...