You've All Missed The Boat

[ScottK]

I'll give my interpretation of why all of you are complaining about the same thing without ever giving it a thought to why the situation exists. When the sportbook boom hit in the early 80's in vegas the number of books went from around 10 to 60 in about 2 years. There were only a few qualified managers at that time and what transpired was that people got jobs running sportsbooks that had no glue about the business and therefore the supervisors were taught from people who new nothing and when they moved on to run sportsbooks they new nothing. In essence the business grew to fast compared to the qualified people that could run them. The same thing has happened off-shore. Investors are not hiring qualified people to run there books therefore all they ever hear is you can't beat a sharp player so they won't let you bet which in my opinion is ludicris. I worked off-shore for 2 years and it is tough to beat them but all I cared about was the bottom line not if the same people kept winning. I wrote more volume and my hold was lower but I still managed to win a ton for the owner. Most of these books don't have qualified people to be able to do that in part alot of owners don't want to pay enough to get key people so therefore you guys such as Reno and Bommer have to suffer and will continue to get kicked out for winning so it's something you have to live with. Why you people keep complaining about it is beyond me. I used 2 different lines and the scalpers loved it cause when the squares were laying 7 and there were 6's around I moved the wiseguy line to 6 1/2 and the Reno's of the world flocked in. Usually 10 minutes to post most of you got great numbers. Most books don't do that which I can't understand. They use 2 lines but they never give sharp players a chance to bet. The reason is that they don't understand what to do although it doesn't take a rocket scientist to be a bookmaker. Take it from me. The moral of this is the industry grew to fast and there wasn't enough qualified people to train supervisors who in turn are now running books. Would you hire a person to teach English who could'nt read or hire a smoker to lecture on the hazards of smoking, of course not. That's what a lot of books are doing, hiring people who don't understand the business and you guys will suffer for this but there are enough outs so quit complaing and understand reality.

[Ronbets]

ScottK,

Sounds like you ve been around. The bitching your hearing is of a different degree than normal. Its similar to stress-Type A and B. This is the good bitching, Type A. You know the kind that say I beat them(while pounding my chest) and they shut me off.

I think theres a void to fill out there. Why not open an Art Manteris School of Bookmaking? Educate these glorified ticket writers.

[OLD MAN]

RONBETS
I KNOW WHO THIS SCOTT K IS. YOU THINK
MONTI IS SHARP...THIS GUY IS SHARPER.

[Cons]

I agree that it should be the bottom line that counts. If the book is balanced and the operation is making money, what different does it make if it's John D or Mike C who are on the winning side? The book is balanced and a profit is being made regardless.

[Jeff]

Great topic........I have to say, THE most fascinating part of visiting the books, to me, is discussing the overall bookmaking strategy of the different bookmakers.

Interstingly enough, I found that the guys who throw sharps out were in the high majority, while the guys who book the old fashioned way were in the minority.

I mean, most of the guys simply didn't want ANY winners.

The argument is, we're running a service for the recreational players, not the guys who want to come in and pick our pockets.

I guess the bottom line is, this is a business, and the business owners want to maxmaize their profits.

From that aspect, you can't argue with them. One of the most successful shops as far as hold goes, employs a three strike rule.

Beat me to the number three times, and your gone.

Right? Wrong? Hey, if he holds more than anyone else, who can argue with that?

As a player, of course, I don't like that. However I understand it, and can't say for sure that I wouldn't do the exact same thing..........

[JohnnyDeMarco]

Well said Scott K. Take everything you said about running a store and throw in all the marketing and the communication cost and you have yourself an offical nightmare.

[reno]

The books that didn't want "wiseguy" action this baseball season have cost themselves a mint. The public moves and syndicate moves have both gone south.

The "real bookies," who handle everyone and who move their lines on action, not "air," have cleaned up.

[Fedya Fussball]

Jeff:

When you say "Beat me 3 times" - Does that mean "Cash in the chips 3 times?" Or some fancy formula which the 'puter alerts the book that this guy is sharp???

FF

[Scott Landau]

Fedya, He's referring to someone who beats the move consistently before it hits the screen....Reno, agree 100%, moving on air and throwing out winners is bullsh!t!

[Jeff]

Fedya,

Scott is correct. However, you mention software, the following should be pointed out.

Software is only limited by your imagination these days.

It's entirely possible for a book to have software, that if I'm the bookmaker, I can flag Fedya Fussballs account, so that when Fedya makes a bet, a siren goes off, and the lights in the office start blinking on and off. Hell, we could even make Michael Buffers voice come over the PA system, and announce that "Fedya has just wagered a dime on the marlins at -118".

[This message has been edited by Jeff (edited 06-24-2000).]

[ScottK]

Reno, you are 100% correct. It is still a players market out there and everyone should be glad there are over a hundred shops to bet with. Do you know how hard it is to race up and down the strip eating haagen-daaz and avoid the traffic at the same time. Now guys like Reno can sit in there lazy boy and punch buttons and bet and eat haagen-daaz at the same time. Much safer. Jeff, I think you missed my point. Maximizing your profits does not mean throw out all your wiseguys. Having a higher hold % does not mean you're a better bookmaker than the next guy. Would you rather hold 4% of 300 million or 7% 100 million? Your point of maximizing your profits is what every sportsbook should strive for but the knowledge is not there for most books. Five years ago you could possibly make a case for not going after volume due to the high costs of 800 numbers but with the advent of internet waging and the lowering of 800 costs there's no reason not to take on anyone who wants to wager. The whole key to running a successful off-shorebook IS maximizing your profits like you said but most books don't know the first thing about how to do that. Thanks your for all your replys.

[bbuster]

ScottK- You obviuosly know what your talking about, but I believe a more accurate statement regarding what every book should strive for would be "maximize profits while minimizing risk".

[ScottK]

bbuster

You have stated it correctly. That is what I've been trying to convey but sometimes for me I don't always write what I'm thinking. The bottom line is my philosphy is not how much you win it's how much you don't lose. Similar to playing poker. But I still believe in volume because volume overcomes everything.

[bucky]

Players who get kicked out for winning too much is a ?? subject. I think they were scalping and the the sides with a particular book went on a tear. The player had enough guts to take some big dogs because of the scalp not because of some great handicapping ability.

The book shouldn't be getting hurt unless the player is scalping mistakes. If it is late action the book is asking for the plays and if they have a brain wouldn't the sharp player be doing them a favor by balanceing their book. Unless, the player is bombing them and in turn making them lopsided the opposite way then.

I think it is more likely players get asked to leave because they scalp too many mistakes or try to bomb a book with big late action on a scalp type number.

[bbuster]

Bucky- IMO your dead wrong,I have been thrown out of 7 places and not one ever took more than a dime. Most of them took 2 or 3 bucks on a total and 5 on a side. The big stores where the so called big boys play dont throw people out for betting and winning. I have not heard of one case of a Donbest offshore book throwing out a player for winning to much, maybe for pastposting.