Bonus scam ... or not ...

[mls]

One of our regular posters is proud that he used "employees" to obtain multiple bonuses.

The way it works is simple. You post up 10 dimes and receive a 15% bonus. You scalp out 2x the action (breaking even) and then pull out. When you get your 10 dimes back you have an "employee" open a 10 dime account at the same book "with your money" and he (you) gets another 15% bonus and you get a 10% referral bonus.

So far, with 10 dimes you (and your "employee") have made 4 dimes in bonuses with no risk.

Using 10 "employees" and 20 or so books you can make about 100+ dimes in 6 months with this scam with no risk ... or is it a scam?

By the way, the individual I am talking about did make 100 dimes and openly states that having "employees" open accounts with his money is just smart business.

Chester of Island Casino disagrees ...

Is it good business or larcery ...

[Mad Jack]

It's really none of my business and I probably shouldn't stick my nose in it, but he comes on here posting how he is getting beat by such and such, when in fact, HE was the one that scammed THEM.

He sounds like an intelligent man, so he had to know that he was abusing the system. In order to get the bonus, he used a friend to open an account with his money. If he knew that he was doing something legit, why did he try to hide the fact that it was him making the deposits? Because he wouldn't have gotten the bonus had he done it in his name, and he knew that.

He tried to cheat the books', period!

The sportsbooks in question didn't deserve the bad publicity, if that's how the deal went down.

just my opinion

-Jack

[thedevil]

Mad Jack et all,

The books open themselves up to this kind of chicanery by the structures of their bonus systems.

If Pathmark put out specials and you could figure out how to get 3 for 1 instead of 2 for 1 would that be stealing or cheating.

If the books can't figure out what's going to happen before they put out specials, they shouldn't be in the business. This is strickly a numbers business and those that can't figure where they are going to get beat shouldn't be in it. By the same token those that send monies to places that appear that stupid deserve to suffer the consequences as if they are doing it someone else surely is. Then it becomes a contest as to who will get their money first when that place folds.


THE DEVIL

PS Mad Jack I like your forum but you need some controversy to liven it up

[This message has been edited by thedevil (edited 06-03-2000).]

[AYCE]

Originally posted by Mad Jack:
It's really none of my business and I probably shouldn't stick my nose in it.

The sportsbooks in question didn't deserve the bad publicity, if that's how the deal went down.

Oh yeah, Jack.

Considering how many of those 7-11 books having ads on your website, what a surprise to see you having such good insight for us!

[reno]

Mad Jack, I had a car stereo installed at a place called Mad Jack's in San Diego. Are you the same mad Jack who owns that business?

[Bob]

Devil, you say that books "open themselves up to this kind of chicanery" by the way they set up and run their bonus programs.

I agree with you on that point, although at the end of the day it is still "chicanery."

If the book's rule is a one time sign up bonus...and you go in and grab five or six bonuses then you've out and out cheated them. There may be giant holes in their procedures and they may be as dumb as fenceposts in the way they run the bonus, but I don't think that gives you the right to go in and deceive them out of their money.

But if you do, and then you get caught, you have to expect to face some kind of unpleasant consequence.

Just because you can get away with chicanery doesn't make chicanery okay...even for thedevil himself.

[thedevil]

Bob,

I only replied from experience. If a customer opened an account with 5,000 and I gave him 10% sign-up, when and if it came time to re-up he would want another 10%. If we refused to give him another 10% he would simply close his account or call under another name to get the 10%. I'm not saying the customer is right or wrong. But where ever there are loopholes there is always someone ready to take advantage.

THE DEVIL

[Bob]

Well, it is any players right to try and negotiate the best deal possible. And if the player demands a second bonus to continue playing then that's his or her business. But it's the also book's right to say yes or no to that demand.

But once the book says no...then posting up under another name or getting a beard to do it for you (employee/beard what's the difference) you've crossed a line and obtained money through fraud, I believe.

Even if you skip the part of asking the book for a second bonus and go straight to the beard...you're into a very shady area....one our Australian friends would call dodgy.

Don't get me wrong here. I think BOOMER is owed his money. From his discription of matters (which has been shockingly frank) it sounds like the three books, through their single owner have openly acknowledged a debt that they are obliged to pay.

However, if they could show that Boomer took them for multiple bonuses WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE, I wouldn't be suprised to see them try and claim that money back by deducting it from what he is owed.

And I'm not sure they would be in the wrong to do it.

[thedevil]

Bob.

I agree 100% with everything you said.

[-UB-]

The bonus issue is definitely a complicated one. The player obviously benefits when he receives a 10%-15% bonus on his funds...we all know how hard it is to make a profit, and this offers a great advantage from the start. Due to the competitive nature of this industry, Sportbooks almost have to offer a bonus anymore. That being said, these bonuses are to offer a perk to a new player to try the book, in the hopes of establishing a long term relationship with the player. In the end, the bonus is worthless if the player cannot collect their initial post-up and winnings when they desire. This is why it always amazes me that the same players who b!tch and moan about being stiffed here and being stiffed there go to these ridiculous extremes to undermine the very same establishments that they want to be able to send them their 100 dimes when they decide to cash out. Look at it from the Sportsbook's perspective here, they have to offer these bonuses to remain competitive. They also have to find a way to stay in business with so many people trying to constantly cheat them. While Boomer's situation is unfortunate, it seems as though he contributed to digging his own grave from the start. I hope he gets paid, but if not, he is partially to blame.

[Underdog7]

UB - you had a good point but I totally disagree in your first statement "the bonus issue is definitely a complicated one". I do admit that I am one of the guys who enjoys or take advantage of bonuses which I don't see anything wrong with it (don't have to explain that)and had some misundertandings with it due to some numerous shops I'd dealt with. By now, I already know the shops who are straightforward or not. As you said, since competition is getting tighter, each and every shop has its own style of attracting customers. This is the bottom line. It is the shops responsibility to explain "what exactly are they offering" and it is the client's responsibility to "ask what they are getting" before signing up to avoid conflicts. Good luck to all!!!

[EZMONEY]

I hate to say it but it looks like Boomer had it coming.I would not like to see anyone get stiffed, but remember books offering all these bonuses are doing so for a reason, they need customers badly. If a book out there is offering bonuses on signup, and when a player reups, even when using credit cards i would stay away. Look at WWTS. Some of their adds say they don't give away the farm because they are in it for the long haul.How many people get bonuses using a credit card and then charge back.I would rather play with a place where i know i am going to be paid, not a place that gives huge bonuses.

[greg]

good point mls, after scamming the well known big outs one would than need to scam the why were you posting up here outs. Anyone who does this and gets stiffed is not worthy of sympathy as this quasi-stealing hurts the legit sports gambler doing business with casinos who are being financially taken advantage of by these con artists. Bottom this activity has the potential to weaken the books we play at and negatively effect future bonuses for legit players. NO SYMPATHY for these crooks.

[intheknow]

Boomer stiffs Delmar and scams regular books with bonus money.

Hey Pinnacle! You can have this guy, with my blessings!

[kosar]

Originally posted by AYCE:
Oh yeah, Jack.

Considering how many of those 7-11 books having ads on your website, what a surprise to see you having such good insight for us!

Ayce,

Here are a few of Boomers quotes on this forum that should help even a dense sort like yourself see the 'insight' of Jacks post:


"Aces Gold offers not only 25% re-up bonus (on 20 dime bank wires) but ALSO has NO JUICE on fridays 5pm to 5am for all of saturdays basketball card"

"I'm proud to say I never win at Aces Gold (which is my hope and intention) and can continue to send them more money and get that re-up bonus (get the point?)

Ayce, that's called churning.(insight)

"use your imagination from here on in as I don't want to give away too many "trade secrets" for fear others will do as I do and these deals will stop"

He is absolutely correct here. The more people that perpetrate bonus scams like himself, the better chance that these 'deals will stop'.


"I'd like to present this as a point of view that some haven't considered. That everything I do is rated on a risk versus reward ratio, and that many times the reward is so great, its worth the risk."

Apparently not always.


"Yes, even if you get stiffed that one or two times, the reward over repeated implementation of that strategy far outweighed what it cost you from the money you lost from the one or two crooks"

Hmmmmm,

That strategy? ok, whatever. I suppose the notion of a "crook" is relative.