An open letter to my creditors...

[Boomer]

Kosar,

I have had many dealings with Money Plays and the manager there Jack, is as straight a shooter as they come.

When I commented about that situation, I had specific knowledge about it and I told what I knew.

I still say that if the head of Unified Gaming controls Money Plays money, than I wouldn't play there. Let Money Plays come here and tell us whether they do or they don't.

If they do, they won't admit it, but even THEY don't have control of their money.

[Underdog7]

Boomer - I don't want to get into this mess, but I myself like any others here had sufficient investments with other shops. Please do me a favor, I just wanted to sleep well tonight. SHOUT it out and let us get over with this. Name it pal!!!!

[Boomer]

I did UDog.

The names of the three books that are not paying me are:

Rosie's Chalk Island Casino
Aloha Casino
Snap Casino

Snap was supposed to send a transfer to Del Mar for 31,500 on last Friday, I was given the ABSOLUTE WORD by the head of Unified Gaming while the owner of Del Mar was on the phone that it would go out last Friday. Its a week later and I still don't have it.

There is always an excuse for a Unified Gaming book. These people have so many numbers that get transposed, it's a miracle anyone ever gets paid.

I am sick and tied of their constant excuses. If you heard the tapes of the barrage of phone calls to cajole my money out of these people you would wrench and vomit. I feel that way after listening to myself and what a pussy I've been.

I'm done. Send me my money. You'll never hear from me again Unified I promise you that.

[MOE]

Boomer,
At this time iBet has absolutely no involvement whatsoever with Perplexa and or any of its' other affiliates...They do all of their own processing,checks, payouts,and so on and so forth just to clear up that matter of doubt. BE there no doubt they are in control of every matter at hand.
Thank you very much and I hope that you have a nice night, good luck in all of your future endeavors.
Professionally,
Moe of iBet

[Underdog7]

Thanks BOOMA'. Sending funds most especially those amounts you mentioned to shops which I even did hear off needs a lot of "balls". I wish you all the best pal.

[ShiftySheik]

Boomer, I'm sorry to hear the bad news. I don't know much about the connection between the Unified books. I hate to see a good book like Sportbet.com get put down because some other bad books use the same software. My experience with Sportbet has been positive. My payout from last week arrived in 3 days. The only gripe I have with them is that their customer service could be better. Other than that, I beleive they are solid.

[Boomer]

Moe,

Thanks for coming here and informing us of this. If that is the case, I would have no problem in recommending you to others based on the experiences I have had with your book.

Now Moe, could you please tell everyone why you pulled away from Perplexa and the new UChargedIt as when I was playing with you, you were with Perplexa.

Maybe the payouts took too long and there were too many "transposed numbers," and lack of fedex control numbers or am I inventing all this. Or is it a figment of my imagination.

I challenge any of the sportsbooks in the Unified Group to come here and tell me why they went to their own payout control center. It was because you were so frustrated begging for YOUR OWN MONEY.

Well how about coming forward and giving me a hand and stopping the head of Unified Gaming from controlling your money. By coming out in public and telling him to pay me, that he is costing you money and this is doing no one any good.

No owner would ever do that in public, because they fear he will pull their software plug. Well I don't work for the head of Unified Gaming.

Every book owner in the group knows I'm telling the truth, but I'm sure is afraid to come forward.

[DukeDog]

I've been following BW since January and read almost every post. Lately, all we hear about are Stiff Books and when we post the ambulance chasers like Pinnacle come out saying how much better they are. They then sucker us in and stiff us. I deal with four books CRIS, Carib, SportsBetOnline (only because they dont follow Best and there lines are off sometimes), and VC (Soccer). I've never had problems collecting from any of these (Thank god) and would recommend them to my Mother. I have collections coming all the time because I love to try and middle.

Boomer best of luck and tell us how we can help. If its a boycott just say the word and I will post on every board I know. We can not have Stiff Books.

[like2bet2]

Boomer, i still dont understand how you could get so caught up with these books, why didn't you ask for your money earlier. At least if they refused to pay 50, you would have saved 50?

[Hamhog]

Hey Dukedog,

Pinnacle deserves better.
They are a class act.

[Junior44]

I also am very reluctant to get involved in this mess, but there has been something that has been eating at me for several days, and since somebody brought it up, I feel compelled to get it off my chest. I have never played with Pinnacle, but according to those i know who have, they are nothing short of solid. However, I must address this "get your stiffed funds back through us" concept. I understand I risk pissing off alot of people, but I have given this a great deal of thought and I am confident my logic is sound. I believe this is tremendously wrong and is a risk to the entire internet gaming entity. What they basically are saying is "If you get stiffed, don't fret. Come to us and we will allow you to recoop your losses." Now, I'm not going to comment on the intentions of this gesture, nor does it really matter. Morality, also, is not an issue. However, what this does is give a book a "licence to stiff." Their thinking: "Why should we pay so-and-so, when Pinnacle will?" Also (and more importantly), the incentive, persevearance, and effort for the INDIVIDUAL to get his money from a SPECIFIC book that stiffed them will greatly suffer. To what extremes will they go to get the money owed to them when Pinnacle will take care of it? Why spend 3 weeks talking on the phone to this book and emailing Joe Blow 146 times, when the Pinnacle option is readily available? Much easier to just blow the whole thing off and join up with the good guys. And you think the books (the shadier ones specifically) don't know this? This cannot be good for the industry........Once again, it is difficult for me to question the integrity of Pinnacle. Up to this point, I have not heard one negative peep about them. But, this "program" smells....

Boomer, as you know, I have been a daily contributor to this forum for quite awhile and have probably read every one of your posts. I have no reason to believe that you are anything but honest. However, I must echo the sentiments of Kosar and Udog. In this industry, a book can be put up on a pedestal one day and 3 weeks later get blasted all over the net. You, yourself, have done this on at least one occasion. But this is a typical constant in a business environment. Any business. As long as businesses are run and controlled by individuals, and a portion of these individuals are of the dishonest, shady, and unsavory type, this won't change and is part of the equation. Which leads me to Udog's point. Everybody has their own level of risk tolerance. Sometimes this remains a constant throughout one's life and sometimes experience alters it. Whether we want to acknowlege it or not, the internet/oversees sportsbetting industry is hardly stable. Not even close, despite the efforts of BW, and folks such as yourself. Two of the outs you mentioned I have not even heard of and the decision on whether or not to send them that kind of loot would be an easy question for me to answer. A resounding NO. But that is just me. This situation is extremely unfortunate and, with the utmost sincerity, I hope you ultimately get your funds.

Best of luck to you........
Jr44

[chestrockwells]

Junior44, I think you're missing the whole Pinnacle thing. Clearly it's a marketing thing, and a good one at that. But to suggest that anyone who is owed money by a sportsbook would just drop their claims before all efforts to recoup it are explored and explored to the fullest is almost ridiculous. I can only assume that you've never been stiffed or owed money. The Pinnacle offer is very generous but it can hardly be compared to getting all the money back at once. Furthemore as this offer evolves I'm sure that Pinnacle will adapt and refine it so that they cannot be taken advantage of. I have no quarrel with you nor am I attempting to pick on you but I had to react to this. When you then continue and say that some books will use this as an excuse not to pay...I'm left dumbfounded because it be would foolish for them to have this type of reaction. Bottom line is that if a book is making money and wants to stay around and make more, they're not going to risk screwing you. And if they're going to screw you, do you really believe that what crosses their mind is that Pinnacle is going to let you make it all back eventually. I mean come on!

[This message has been edited by chestrockwells (edited 06-03-2000).]

[Junior44]

chestrockwells -

I see your point and have no problem with you disagreeing with my opinion. However, I do want to make a couple of clarifications. First of all, this concept by pinnacle is very much in the larval stages. Of course, at this stage, a book is not going to have the type of reaction that I describe. But, as this idea grows into fruition and, PERHAPS, assuming it is successful, other books pick up on this marketing tactic, I believe it will have an impact. Will players just abandon trying to get their money? No. But the intensity level surely will diminish to some degree if this option is a viable alternative. This, and only this, is what troubles me. Considering that the notion of offering a "sign-up bonus" had to start somewhere (and is now out-of-hand), this notion is not completely unrealistic. It basically boils down to this: Good, reputable books should not be paying the debts of the less desirable. Even if it benefits them. And to address your assumption: No, I have not been stiffed by an offshore, but I have been stiffed in another non-gambling related area. After exhausting all the conventional means at my disposal, I ultimately resorted to a "less-than-legal" procedure. It was my only option and I got what was owed to me. Had there been the option of somebody else paying the debt, I doubt I would have had the same level of persistance. The level of occurances of people getting stiffed is much higher than what is presented in this forum. That is because, most of us here, are knowlegable, stick with BW books, and know who to send money to and who not to. There are many average Joe's out there that don't even know where to BEGIN should they have the unfortunate occurance of being stiffed.

[This message has been edited by Junior44 (edited 06-03-2000).]

[bgeorgia]

DukeDog,

your statement :
when we post the ambulance chasers like Pinnacle come out saying how much better they are. They then sucker us in and stiff us.
is sheer nonsense and appears to come from someone with an agenda against Pinnacle or from someone who simply is not in the know.
this post has caused much confusion and it takes time to digest all the posts and then puke out an opinion on this.
i suggest no one rush to any judgements here. That is not to say Boomer is not speaking the truth about what has happened. He has. My only point is that to bring a Pinnacle Sports into this now is nonsense.
Is it a way to get new clients? Yes! is their deal attractive? YES! Has Pinnacle stiffed anybody? NO. Lets leave Pinnacle out of this.
Finally, in all fairness, lets sit tight and give jeff and myself and BOOMER a little time to sort this out before everybody goes haywire.

thanks

brian

[Pinnacle Sports]

I ask for you patience while I take up some of your time to reply to some of the posts on this thread.

DUKEDOG:-
I am offended by your comments on this thread. Stating that we sucker people in and then stiff them is obscene. If you have ever had a problem with PINNACLE or know someone who has, why has there not been a posting in here before. The simple reason is,that it has never happened.


Junior 44 :-

Your comments are well formed. I do take on board a lot of what you have suggested.Can I say firstly you are right in saying that this program is still very much in the development stages. After the response we have received over the last few days we are constantly improving the initiative. Can I ask you to maybe to email me some of your suggestions on how we refine this to satisfy all concerned. You obviously have some well thought out comments and I would welcome your feedback.
Thank you jr44


MATT KEATS
MARKETING DIRECTOR
PINNACLE SPORTS
matt@pinnacle.an