western unions, taxes, etc..

[Mikes1212]

anybody out there know if theres a limit of how much you can send through western union a week/day etc without raising a flag? I read the posts from a couple months ago that touched on this. I was wondering because I have sent and received alot of money back and forth, and am wondering if theres a better way to send the money such as wire it to the sportsbooks. The next question is regarding taxes...I am overall up the last year and a half gambling, however I lost track somewhere down the line. If I deposited all the winnings then I could go back and add it all up minus the post ups, but I have received money western union, and cashed many checks that do not show up in my bank transactions because no in my balance occured. I have occasionally endorsed some small checks to a friend, does this mean he would be technically liable for the taxes on the money? Also, who has been audited and what were the reasons. The sportsbooks don't report it, and I don't think the banks do unless the check is over $10,000. thanks a bunch gentleman

[JPet]

Taxes owed and reporting by banks, sportsbooks, etc are two different mutually exclusiveitems. You are resposible to treat net annual winnings as ordinary income ( therefore taxable ). Wether or not anyone reports these "earnings" does not change the LEGALITY of the tax liability.

[reno]

Mike1212, I was audited for 1995 and 1996. My CPA and I will be meeting with an IRS Appeals Officer either in June or July. If a settlement can't be reached, the final step would be tax court.

When the IRS does an audit, they will thoroughly check out every transaction in your bank accounts. For deductions, you will have to provide proof (receipts, etc.)

I requested the audit report from the IRS, and it is 529 pages!

It is difficult to say what what kind of bank account and Western Union activity triggers an investigation. I recently had a bank report me for "structuring," making a series of withdrawals to avoid withdrawing more than $10,000 at one time. The entire thing is subjective. Any financial activity the bank deems "suspicious," is reported to the IRS. The banks are coerced by the IRS into being informants.

If I hear from the IRS on any years after 1995 and 1996--which have been a complete nightmare--I'll probably just leave the country for good. I hate the Government. I'd love to be able to give up my social security and and my social security number and just drop out of the system.

[krackman]

Even though this topic has been around before I always find it informative. I feel western union and banks are probably in bed with the IRS. Though I have been told that w.u. would not jeopordize the ridiculous income they make off the sportsbooks $68 every time you send $.

Did not know about that Reno. Sorry to hear it please keep us informed if you can.

"The sportsbooks don't report it, and I don't think the banks do unless the check is over $10,000"

I would like to know that myself. Like Reno said even a smaller amount might draw a red flag. So if I deposit a check in my savings account for 8 dimes and take out 3 , 3 , and 2 over a 5 day period would this be grounds for the bank to be a rat?

[chestrockwells]

Bottom line is...there is no magical amount that raises suspicion. It is purely subjective on the part of the bank and/or the individuals you deal with at the bank. What may be suspicious to one person may not be to another. Keep in mind that the general prestige in banking, especially at the branch level, has gone down so much over the years that it is not unusual to have the bank mgr. or asst. mgr. as your teller. Some of these people are stupid....some are not.Some of them view everything slightly different as suspicious, some don't. Some can be befriended etc. etc. Hope that's enough hints.

[Mikes1212]

What if you go to for example, Nations Bank and cash the Nations Bank check there? If it's a Nations Bank check you can just go there and cash it with 2 forms of ID and no SS# is required. The government would have no way to know you cased it their if I am not mistaken without your SS# on record.
I haven't won that much where avoiding taxes would be that beneficial...If I had made $100K then that would be different, but I was careless and now I really couldn't say what my net gains are..if I sent money through western union in '99 and received a payout in '00.. can I still deduct the western union post up? If I signed a check over to someone is that still income? All these little things make it very confusing.
From what I have read, I guess the best way to go about moving money is through sending and receiving bank wires..if you send or receive more than $10,000 does that raise a flag?
Reno, so you got audited because of "structuring?" You are talking about leaving the country, so I would imagine you are dealing with Alot of money, wouldn't it have been best to wire or transfer the money?
Finally regarding western union, I have sent $5G's many many times.. I didn't suspect there would be any problem because I wouldn't think western union would tell the IRS since they make so much money off it. But then I read on the other site about Krackman's situation so that kinda made me think.

[Segundo]

Mikes1212, you are all over the place buddy, calm down and go spend a couple of hundred dollars and talk to one of the big five accounting firms located all over the country, I recommend Deloitte & Touche, tell them exactly what you want to talk about before you go just in case they don't have anyone that specializes in gaming tax, Western Uniion's, etc.

The best way for someone like you to "move money" would be with money orders, cheap and effective.

reno never said he got audited for structuring although he probably will be soon since he said he was recently reported. No need to worry reno, I have some experience with this, let me know if you want to talk, I am in Vegas.

Everyone remember this: Every bank or WU or whatever is in bed with the IRS so stop kidding yourselves with these ideas of how to get around reporting especially after you showed your ID, regardless of whether or not you gave your social security number. There ARE many ways around reporting, some I have learned here on this site, so be smart and good luck to all.

reno, could you let us know why they audited you in 95 and 96?

[reno]

Mike1212, I did not get audited because of "stucturing." I got audited because of a straight-world business and a domestic trust associated with me. The structuring report was submitted on me a few weeks ago by a bank. It has nothing to do with 1995 and 1996, the years I was audited for. You need to find a good CPA to answer your questions.

[JohnnyDeMarco]

Western Union works hand in hand with the IRS. If you send a lot of money using Western Union they will file a suspicious activities report on you with the IRS. How much does it take to trigger that, I don't know. This procedure cost me my life savings!

[Mikes1212]

I have sent ALOT of money through western union, if they reported it to the IRS then how long would it take them to get in touch with me because I started posting up through western union over a year ago. I don't know much about the money orders but will surely look into them...JohnnyDemarco, would going to my bank and wiring the money be a safe way as well,because really that is the most convienent method..would the banks get suspicious with frequent activity back and forth overseas? thanks again for the insite

[Mikes1212]

Johnny one more thing, how did the western union procedure cost you your life savings? If you got audited then you just pay a tax on your winnings, what did I miss here? How much of a penalty do you pay for getting audited?

[krackman]

Yes I recently had a problem with players only/western union evidently players does not change the pickup person(courier) enough so w.u. told me to contact the IRS for any further info on this transaction. When I called players they told me they would credit me with the money and would take care of it so that's all I know. But I wish I did not get involved with this because this does not look good for my name.

[chestrockwells]

I'm sorry, but it seems that every few months or so this topic comes up and goes nowhere in almost exactly the same way. Mike, you seem to want some sort of a magical path or "how to" type of answer to your questions. You're not going to find it and, no offense, even if it existed and you did find it, I doubt you'd be able to pull it off. Just from the way you're posting, you ooze guilt and beg for suspicion to be cast down upon you. Next time you're at the supermarket, hide a pack of peanuts or a candybar under your jacket and go through checkout. Just for the experience of it. Now if you truly are moving "ALOT" of money through WU then you're begging to raise a red flag. Look around you when you're there. Do you ever see anyone send anything that can be considered A LOT of money? I haven't in almost 3 years of doing it. So why do you want to do it? To appear suspicious? I mean come on, where's the thinking here? It should be abundantly clear to us that we don't really live in a free country and that you can't just do anything with impunity. Johnny D, if you truly did lose your life savings on this, then I'm sure that looking back you must have done a lot of things that were blatant. Or you did it with with such large figures that anyone would have looked at your activities suspiciously. I bet it didn't take a Sherlock Holmes type to figure it out. So I consider this whole topic redundant and bordering on silly. And with that I'll sign off since I have to do my weekly transfer of a bagful of cash at WU early tomorrow.

[chestrockwells]

And if anyone is worried that Mike will do any hard time for the peanuts and/or candybar theft I jokingly suggested..... keep in mind that according to American Demographics magazine, from last year, if you're a male 35 or older who has never done jail time, the chances of you actually doing jail time between 35 and your death is under 3 in 1000. Now this figure is substantially higher in a certain racial group, but otherwise there should be some comfort drawn here. And unlike John Rocker, I'll just leave it at that.

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Live here is town with population about 50,000.Recently had several people here popped for insider trading which if you recall made national headlines couple months ago.What triggered investigation? A forum and message board.If you think big brother isn't watchin your wrong.So remeber when your talkin dime this 10 dimes that,be it bettin or just boastin your subjecting yourself to unnessesary scrutiny.