"Betting In Progress" at The Dunes...

[Boomer]

Yes, Johnny you are spreading rumors that this sportsbook, The Dunes, is about to go under, now tell us what information you have to support that other than you think a 25% signup bonus is too much of an obstacle to overcome.

Give me accurate information that I may verify and I will apologize.

Otherwise, how would you like it if you opened a business and people are spreading lies about YOU and it was costing YOU money. Nothing personal, just seeking the truth.

[JohnnyDeMarco]

The operators of not one, but two offshore sportsbooks in Curacao told me this information. I have placed calls to both of them and I am waiting for return calls. As soon as I reverify what I was told I will report back. Hey, I did not say that the Dunes people were crooks here, all I said was they got really hurt last month and that they were having a few problems. Let's make that real clear. I really don't think that the BW audience knows how much it cost to open a big store offshore. A ton!

[Underdog7]

We all know that Johnny. You are not dealing with a bunch of kids here. All we are concerned is, how accurate is your info? You just had to back it up chief....

[JohnnyDeMarco]

U7,
The information I get from these people always has been reliable. I seen no reason why it shouldn't be here. When I get this info I'm going to pass it on to Jeff and let him decide whether or not to make it public.
No games here, but I don't want every Tom **** & H calling these people either.

[phaedrus]

Let me see if i can understand the "genius" behind the DUNES betting in progress. Not only am I not able to get a rundown of the lines, but once i do ask what the line is on a given game I am also forced to bet that game? WOW sounds like a great deal to me, Oh yeah, let me also see if i get this straight, only one person "Jason" is providing this service, so you can bet that the service is going to be fast... BTW is the website up and running yet?

As for Bworld being a "bunch of kids" i don't necessarily agree with that statement but ask yourselves this, how much "info" do you need to realize that 25% is a HUGE bonus amount.

I have no info regarding the "economic" status of Dunes, but here is what i do know;

1. the average bettor could care less about betting in progress, especially with the conditions outlined above, WSEX has a much better way of handling this.

2.Contrary to what the "kids" have stated, it costs a ton of cash to setup offshore, especially in the digs that Dunes has set up.

3. 25% to the first 200 or so customers is a huge amount to overcome.

4. They are not providing any internet wagering.

5. Internet wagering will lower your costs, and increase your volume, especially in comparison to 800 number fees, clerks, and having your line manager personally handle one specific wagering option.

In conclusion, sounds like a great business plan, i am sure they have tons of funding, heck the venture caps are probably lining up at the door to deal with this revolutionary method of handling wagers. To think "one on one personal service" by your head line manager no less. WOW.

[JohnnyDeMarco]

Phaedrus,
To further your point about the economics of internet wagering, it is true that I-wagering should lower your cost of operation.
But also keep in mind that with most I-wagering it is done with a charge card. The offshore outlet pays another 5-7% to have their charge cards processed. Plus you have to deal with fraud and credit card chargebacks. Now that I mentioned chargebacks, I also want to add that the credit card precessors usually hold about 20% a month to cover future charge backs.
Add in the 10,20,25% signup bonuses and 10% more on reloads and the good old offshore boys better win 8.5 out of ten days or they are cooked. There is not one single operator out there who can truthfully dispute what I've said here.

[JohnnyDeMarco]

double pump, sorry!

[This message has been edited by JohnnyDeMarco (edited 05-02-2000).]

[Dot Mix]

Johnny DeMarco may not make his mark on the world as a handicapper, but I do allow a certain amount of respect for John Edens/ De Marco as far as what he may know regarding the people and internal workings of the gambling and bookmaking subculture. For John to have made such a warning about the DUNES "shakiness" unless having an ulterior motive is not fathomable to me, and at this point I have no idea if he has one. It might also be construed that DeMarco has a bit of an ego (regarding what he knows) that may sometimes place his nose in unwise situations, but if John has reliable sources I'd like to hear more, because sportsbooks can have plush offices and fancy web-sites but in no way does that mean a place is iron clad solid. I don't want to see a place hurt either, if it could prove to be a secure and solid out. I'd like to see what shakes out of this before I move ahead with any book that is rumored (by alledged reliable sources) to face impending financial problems. Most will admit that Johnny has showed a willingness to get involved in issues regarding sleeze-ball books, and I'm not going to discourage anyone from coming forth with any type of hearsay from sources that are deemed reliable. Many of the sportsbooks that became eventual problems were operations that were preceeded with hearsay, rumor and warnings often fueled by inside infomation . An initial hint of ACTION SPORTS impending thievery was revealed in this very forum by a former employee and relative who gave warning about the unscroupulosness of owner Ray Meyers. Anyone who heeded that warning and boycotted ACTION SPORTS probably has more money in their pockets today than if they disregarded the warning. In business there is often some truth in rumor, and I'd rather take the time to separate the fact from fiction than groan afterwards.

This forum (like any other) is about the sorting out of reliable exchanges of information. They could be endorsements or they could be warnings based on heresay. Either way, I think there is more benefit to listening to all pros and cons, and then having the choice to make a comfortable decision.

Dot

[mls]

When the first online book began to appear the old time bookies said they would all go broke ... afterall, there would be no more sticking customers with bad numbers ... everyone would eat them alive ...

When Carib started its 2 cent Tuesdays everyone said Carib would be broke after one season - the sharps would eat them alive ...

When ABC Islands began its ties-win football teasers everyone said ABC Islands would be broke before one season ended - everyone would eat them alive ...

When Aces Gold/Sports Market began its 25% bonus program last year everyone said Aces Gold/Sports Market would be broke in a matter of a couple of months - everyone would eat them alive ...

When almost all the Starnet books started giving 10% signup plus 10% referral bonuses everyone said the Starnet books could not last a year - everyone would eat them alive ...

When Casablanca started giving 10% bonuses on all reloads everyone said Casablanca could not survive - everyone would eat them alive ...

When ... well, you get the idea ...

Bonuses don't kill books, dumb BM's kill books.

What amazes me about all this is that the Dunes simply does not have enough customers right now to have a problem - less that 200 I believe. No major marketing is planned until they're online. They tell me that they are not getting dime action on their in-progress betting, only a few bills ... hardly a huge volume.

Anyone in the know will tell you you need about $5 million to open a quality online operation. According to Sting these folks are quite well financed. Frankly, they are just getting started and have not had enough action yet to win or lose big.

As for their 20% bonus or whatever, this is limited to the first few hundred customers.

For anyone to think the Dunes, which has hardly begun and as such has not seen much action yet, is sinking because of their bonuses and in-progress betting is either stupid or naive.

According to Johnny DeMarco, Carib, Aces Gold, all the Starnet books, Casablanca, etc, etc, must be going out of business any day now ... well, you get the idea ...

[sportshobby]

mls, this makes a lot of sense. No well-financed book could get in trouble with a couple of bad months. It just doesn't make sense. Sounds more like some competition just spreading bad gossip.

Lost some money, probably. In trouble, I seriously doubt it.

[thedevil]

Just throwing a few facts into the pot. I have no idea if Dunes started with 1 mill or 100 mill, have no idea if they are or are not in trouble. But if they have a credit business along with the post up and "only" 200 or so customers you can still lose a ton in 4 weeks. 5 ot 10 million sounds like a lot of money and it is, but it can go very fast in this business.

This forum has had many posts where they state some successful books are smarter than the ones that are having financial problems, in some cases that's true in other cases luck plays a big part. At 12:50 on a football sunday when 50 phones are being answered and the internet is humming and everyone is betting the same side and you can't stop them by moving the line, what happens next. Root like hell!!! Sure you know what you have on each side but rarely do you know your reverses, bottom of ifs, parlays or teasers. Most times they aren't rooting for a side, just get the game out of tease range.

Everyone doesn't realize that when a game moves 1/2 point thats not the end of it. The 1st quarter, 1st half, money line and team totals also have to be changed.

Getting back to the point I was trying to make before I started rambling. From everything I've heard about Dunes they may have lost a lot the first couple of weeks but they have very deep pockets and very serious backers.

THE DEVIL

[boris]

I'm mighty keen to get into the Dunes once they're online, being on the other side of the world hurts your phone bills, unless they do a Pinnacle and have worldwide freecall numbers.

Reality - how hard to work out live betting is it? If you're any sort of gambler and call for a quote, you should have some idea what price both teams should be. If they're offering a 10c line, it's highly likely they'll differ from your opinion. Thus you take the 'overs'. EVERY team/player has a price. You can choose the amount you bet, vary it with your degree of joy at the price.
And forcing each caller to bet is a smart move IMO. It means they're serious and don't want their time wasted by pests.

I have run books on live games before. Not on US sports, but the principles are the same. It is hard, but it is a great way to make a profit. Most gamblers will take the favourite anyway, at any price, because they don't know what the true price should be. Shrewd players like Boomer etc, will sit back, be patient and look to create a book of their own under 100%, guaranteeing a profit.

The key is trying to predict what will happen next. But it is not money for jam.

If you think the outsider is capable of scoring next or doing something to make their price shorten, have a small amount on them.
When this happens, wait for the price to change so that the favs are now at least the opposite of what you took (ie take +160, then need better than -160). So if you get -140 for example, take that 20c scalp, close those bets out, and start all over again.

If you've read earlier rants of mine, you'll know I'm not a big rap for scalping/middling at all, simply because it takes no analytical skills whatsoever to win. This style of betting does.

The Southern Hemisphere has been doing it for years on AFL, soccer, rugby, cricket, tennis......

[JohnnyDeMarco]

OK,
I spoke to the two guys in Curacao and they told me they wanted to remain out of this picture. They did tell me that the Dunes really got pounded last month and that they had to get investors (backers) to reload the till. This speaks very well of them. They also told me that the Dunes has big money behind it. Real big! The backers are nervous but business is good. If I said anything wrong here I apologize to everyone and the owners of the Dunes. I heard a story from a reliable source and I passed it along. Sometimes its no win. If would have known what I knew and didn't say anything, and the Dunes went bad (which they aren't) I would of felt bad.

JD

[rabbit]

I dug through the BW archives after reading about the Dunes’ current molasses payment situation here and elsewhere. Johnny D’s comments seem rather prescient, don’t they?

This thread is also of historic interest, because it contains a rare example of a mixed-case post by REALITY.