Do the right thing...

[Boomer]

I thought I'd experienced it all as a sportsbettor over the last 16 months or so, but today was a doozie.

The story begins yesterday when I was going over some old accounts I had to check to search for ten cent lines and whether they were the last year's good variety or the new hybrid that seemed to develop this year, with everyone making it up as they go along. I spend alot of my time lately looking for solid outs that have the good lines such as Aces Gold, Skybook, Premiere, Looselines, Las Palmas, Island and the new Dunes to mention just a few of my favorites.

Anyway I'm working hard entering old account numbers and passwords to check how the lines are and lo and behold, one of my zeroed out accounts has 4600 bones in it.

Well needless to say I am ecstatic and proceed to bet the entire amount in one day, which I proceeded to immediately lose, great 'capper that I am. But I figure no harm no foul, it was found money anyway. No sweat, right.

Wrong.

Today about 5:00 p.m. I get a phone call from the owner of the book, who I was real friendly with last year and he apologizes for missing me when I was in Costa Rica last week as he was at the beach the entire time. And while this conversation is going for about fifteen minutes it never occurs to me the bombshell he is about to drop on me, that THEY made a mistake and accidently credited the account with my 4600 bones and that what are we going to do about it.

I was shocked, I really thought I screwed up and missed one of my accounts with money in it. It happened before as I have been in alot of books and sometimes have found $300 to $1000 in books I thought I was broke in.

So now I'm locked in the horns of a dilemma. I wouldn't have gambled it if I knew it wasn't found money, yet the most sacred thing on earth to me is a gambling debt. My first reaction was to try and negotiate and he made me an offer that was fair, but I was still in shock and told him I needed to think about it overnight, that I was real upset (which I was) and needed to think it over.

It took me less than fifteen minutes to think it over, you pay the man the full amount. You don't be a ******* and try and weasle out, you screwed up, you take your medicine, learn your lesson and pay the price. He will have his money tomorrow.

Please don't ask me the name of the book as I wish to protect his privacy.

The point is if you ever find some money in one of your accounts where you think you had none, you better ask bookkeeping for a rundown or you risk running into the same bonehead play I made.

There is nothing I like better than finding "free money" and there is nothing I hate worse than "the takeback." Boy, does this one smart.

[Underdog7]

Boomer - I don't see any reason why you have to pay. First of all, let me put the situation the other way around. Had you won that play, you will still not to get paid and will get a phone call either way stating that 4600 bones you were talking about didn't really exist in the very first place. If I were in your shoes, I will call that quits.

[Underdog7]

In addition to what I'm saying, having 4600 in your account and suppossedly 0 is not your responsibilty.

[thedevil]

Boomer!!
U7 has a valid point. My feeling is had you won would this guy have paid. You seem to have a relationship with him. If yes, you owe. If no, you don't. But your name and credability is worth something.

[Hamhog]

Interesting thread. Can't say for sure if they book would have paid you if you won.

The way I see it there were two mistakes made. The first one by the book for putting money in your account. The second mistake was you not knowing your balance. Your error could not have happened without the book's error.

It is also clear that the book's mistake will cost you $4600 if you choose to repay them. What did your mistake cost them? Did they layoff your bets? Did they move their lines and get action on the other side? In all likelihood, your mistake cost them zip.
No harm, no foul.

Has the book ever given you credit?

Don't see how the book can expect you to give them 100%.

Just my opinion.

[mls]

Lets assume the reverse - that you bet and won.

Would the book pay you your winnings?

ABSOLUTELY NOT!

The clear rules at every book state that a bet placed without adequate funds is VOID.

I fail to see what "name and credibility" have to do with it - the rules are there for everyones protection.

Since you could not have won, you could not lose.

Sorry, but only a moron (and Boomer is definitely not) would fork over $4600.

BTW, check with any attorney and they will tell you the same thing - the rules apply to the book as well as to you.

I would like to know the name of the book - even asking for the $4600, in obvious violation of their own rules on postup accounts, is despicable.

[bsky2]

I have to agree with MLS, Boomer. It was clearly a mistake on the books part. There is no doubt in my mind, that had you won you would not have been paid.

Since this is a post-up account and there were no funds available the book didn't really win the money. You were in the "bet for fun" mode.

Boomer, I have been reading your posts for some time and there is no doubt about it, you are a honorable guy. I think if the roles were reversed you would not demand payment nor would you come to BW saying you were stiffed.

If you never had a credit account there, his argument is pretty weak. I would speak to him again and try to resolve this without you being punished financially for their obvious mistake.

Good luck, 4 dimes worth

[mls]

The more I think about this the madder I get.

That book manager is a low life con man crook for even asking for the $4600!

Over the years we have all heard stories about winning bets being cancelled by books when a deposit check bounces; or when a prior game was graded incorrectly or when a prior winning parlay included an obviously wrong line and the guy thought he had more in his account.

Cancelling these bets was absolutely correct - because the rule is simple - "any bet make without adequate funds is VOID!"

Every postup internet book has this ironclad rule.

Now this book crook is convincing Boomer that, sure we have that rule like everyone else, but it dosn't apply here because ... well, because ... well, because, uh ... well, because, because ... oh yeh, because that rule is suspended during any full moon ...

[phaedrus]

Boomer MLS has a point, what you need to do is go over the rules and regulations that the book has posted on the website, I am guessing that there is something along the lines of "any bets placed without sufficient funds are Void" if this is the case, and you still feel the need to pay the fee, perhaps a fair deal would be 50%.

If that did not work, thenn this excercise should solve your problem:

If you would have won the bet, and subsequently the book realized their error in the balance, and you can are sure that the book would have allowed you to keep the winnings, then you simply submit the $4600 to them.

If however you feel that the book wouldn't have honored your bet had you have won, then you shouldn't feel guilty for not wanting to pay them for THEIR mistake.

Other relevant factors:

have you ever bet on "credit" with this book before?

When did the book realize the error?

If the book or you incurred any offloading losses in the attempt to balance the ledger. (although this of dubious relevance).

To think my parents said i would never put my masters in philosophy to use after graduation...

[intheknow]

For a manager to call any player at home instead of flagging his account to chat on his next call in is out of line. Another thing, how long was this mistake in your account? How can you balance your books if your $4600 off? That is distubing in itself. Admit your mistake, and apoligize to your player, but in the name of any type of customer service don't even think of trying to profit off it.

[bbuster]

I've been told by bookmakers that the "Golden Rule" is if a bettor cant win then he cant lose. In my mind that is what the whole issue comes down to. If you think you would get your money if you won pay him, if not don't. Only you and him know the answer.

[Boomer]

First of all guys, I didn't come here asking for an opinion. I made my decision and I'm going to pay him what I owe him.

Issue No. 1: Do I think he would have paid me if I won and the amount got jacked up. Well, that's a really tough call, but I thank my lucky stars that didn't happen. I could have been in some serious caca.

Issue No. 2: The guy's a real good guy and he knows what I'm all about and although he personally doesn't give me credit, he has a close friend who does, so in answer to the question, do I think he would have paid if I won, I believe he would have or made some kind of accommodation. He knows a bet is a bet with a guy like me.

Issue No. 3: I've got to wake up and look at my ugly puss in the mirror every morning. I'm the one who has to be comfortable with it and I am. It's a karma thing for me. What goes around comes around...believe me, it really does. I'm living proof.

[bbuster]

You sure you were'nt just middling and won the money elsewhere?

[This message has been edited by bbuster (edited 04-15-2000).]

[Cons]

Tough situation. IMO you were in a no-win situation to begin with. Had you won, your bet would have been voided.

If you had no chance of ever winning, then do you deserve to lose? It's your call.

[bighands]

boomer, i respect your decision but i have learned that when a bookmaker makes you an offer he is wrong. why would'nt he want the whole thing? you are a stand up guy in here and i am just being the devil's advocate. only you know what to do. good luck today.