Riddle me this, Batman..............

[Kiss of Death]

Ok, I see all the hubbub on whether or not betting into an obvious wrong line is fair or cheating..... What about this?

You are the trainer for Old State U, and your two best players get in a fight in the locker room 45 minutes to game time.

One player breaks the others jaw, while breaking his own hand doing it.

Neither will play tonight.

It is a "pick em" game against Acme Tech, and you know that you might as well not even show up now.

Now, if you give this information to a couple of buddies who decide to "wager a few dimes" on Tech before the news gets out, tell me......

Are you a cheat, or an "astute caretaker" of information?

Ok, sinners and saints, ante up an answer.

[chestrockwells]

It depends on how you define "astute caretaker", what your intent was when you told your buddies, whether you usually share this type of info. with friends, whether you know that your friends bet on games, whether you expect them to kick you back something and who your friends are.

[Groz]

Chestrockwells,

You said it perfectly. This is exactly why the NCAA does not want their athletes to "hang around" with people that bet.

[Kiss of Death]

Boys, I think you are missing the point.

With two key players out, would the line still be a "pick em"?

No. It would most likely be off the board.

So, are you not "taking a shot" at the book by placing a bet, no matter of size, having information such as this?

In the scenario mentioned, the info was given for the purpose of betting the game.

[thedevil]

I see nothing wrong with making that bet at pick. That's not betting an off line. That's having info before the public. Happens everyday. Happened yesterday with Barkley of
St Johns. If you knew before everyone else that the line would go to 5 or 6 and were able to take advantage of +8.5 or 9 more power to you.

THE DEVIL

[sportsbank]

I agree with The Devil. If you received
that info before it became common knowledge and the line is still a pick'um I don't see anything wrong in making the bet. Knowledge
is power. That kind of scenerio happens
everyday on Wall St. If that's being a sinner, so be it.

$portsBank.

[Kiss of Death]

......and having the knowledge that a book posted a bad line is theivery? I think not!

[Alexander]

Absolutely nothing wrong with placing a bet like that. If you are lucky enough or astute enough to unearth some key information like that, then you have every right to use that knowledge to your advantage.

I loved your last point KOD. Besides, how hard is it for a book to put up accurate lines, and prevent people from exceeding their betting limits? Is it really that hard, or do they just not want to spend the money to put the people and equipment in place to avoid this from happening.

I am an avid horseplayer, and if the track posts the results of a race as official, then they must pay off what they posted. If they post the wrong winner, wrong second place horse, etc... then it's too bad for them. They must honour those tickets that didn't really win, and also put up the correct results, and pay off those winners too. Regardless of the losses that this scenario presents for the track, and I have seen this happen, the tracks have still chosen to adopt their "once posted official, results will not be changed" policy. They don't hide behind their mistakes. Three cheers for them. And can you answer me this, are those people who cash in their losing tickets (they only won because the track made a mistake) crooks or thieves, immoral, or whatever you want to call them? At least when a bettor spots a line that looks off, is bad, or whatever you want to call it, it does take a certain degree or astuteness or awareness.

[Alexander]

To tell you the truth, I really don't find this topic all that complicated.

If I own a store, and I, or one of my employees makes a mistake and prices a product incorrectly, then the fault is ours, and ours only.

So for example, I mistakenly price my 25" colour t.v. for $150. People see that price and they take "advantage" of it. (you be the judge as to whether they are right or wrong for buying the t.v.) Well, I find out when my store is closed about our mistake. At first I might be a little miffed at those people because I probably would have felt that they took advantage of an obvious mistake. But then I'd calm down, and to tell you the truth, I wouldn't hold any hard feelings towards those people. I would be MAN ENOUGH TO HOLD MYSELF ACCOUNTABLE, and try to make sure that a mistake like that would not happen again. I would take my lumps (losses) like a man, learn from it, and be better because of it.

If a sporstbook puts up a line in error, then the mistake is theirs, SO THEY SHOULD JUST SUCK IT UP!!!!!

If anybody doesn't agree with my point, then please feel free to tell me why.

[Groz]

Alexander,

You are so wrong in your thinking. Everything is relative. If there is a mistake in pricing at a store for a dollar or two, then there shouldn't be any problem. If you have a tv that should go for 350 and was sold for 150, there is a big problem.

Of course, I am not talking about a close-out or special which would be marked. I'm saying that you shop around for an exact model that you want and price it out and see 330-350 everywhere you go. You go to a store and see 150. I would think it was either "hot" merchandise or mismarked. I guess it OK for stores to go out of business.

I sure hope that I never deal with you in business. I hate thieves.

Groz

[BigMoney]

Groz, I consider myself an honest Christian. But if Alex's store offered $350 TVs for $150, I'd buy one or maybe two. And I wouldn't expect him to show up on my doorstep the next day complaining that the price was a mistake made by his employee.

[Alexander]

BigMoney,

Even if I knew that you were one of those lucky people that snapped up one of my mispriced televisions, I wouldn't show up at your doorstep, and if you ever decided to shop at my store again, you'd be most welcome. The mistake was mine, and I will learn from it.

I would not go bankrupt Groz because I would try to make sure that something like that never happened again. If you ever opened up a store, you'd go bankrupt before me because you'd rather call people thieves, than own up to your mistakes.

I'd gain more respect by not hunting down people or calling them thieves, so I'd rather put such a mistake behind me, and I'll be the better for it.

[Hamhog]

Not stating an opinion:

I read an interview of Jimmy Vaccaro where he said something like he would 86 a player in a heartbeat if all the player did was play injury games. Playing injury games is not gambling but stealing.

I kind of agree that real gambling/handicapping is not putting one over an a BM with inside info. I think the true art is when both parties have access to basically the same set of relevant info. Most of the interest is in who can handicap a situation to a greater degree of accuracy.

Don't get me wrong. Free money is a good thing. I personally wouldn't call playing injury games stealing. I also don't think it is entirely honest.

[ajax50]

IF I AN WATCHING THE SCREEN AND A FLASH COMES OVER LIKE IVERSON "GAME TIME SCRATCH" I START DIALING WITH ALL 10 FINGERS FAST AND FURIOUS. IF THE BOOK IS NAPPING,I TAKE THE NUMBER WITH A SMILE.THIS ISNT BETTING INTO A BAD LINE.IF I PLAY THE LAKERS DURING THE DAY WITH ONEAL SCHEDULED "OUT" LAYING SAY 5 AND A FLASH COMES ACROSS THAT HE IS DRESSING SO THE GAME MOVES TO -2,I DONT CALL THE BOOK CRYING I TOOK A BAD NUMBER.IT WORKS BOTH WAYS.

[ajax50]

IN MY LAST POST IT SHOULD SAY ONEAL PLAYING..LINE GOES TO -2.SORRY,ITS EARLY IN THE MORNING.