Bowman International

[PlayDay]

Thought I'd let you all know about my recent and final experience with Bowman International. I've been a customer with them for three years, and have played over $10M in action with them over that time. Their service has gone down hill over the past year. Especially, during the past 6 months, I have noticed horrible customer service and wagering professionalism.

Tuesday was the final straw for me and I urge other sto take heed of this scenario, and beware of Bowman, and consider switching to one of the other fine wagering companies.

I played a $2000 2 team NBA parlay, Suns + 5 and Portland Under 194. The bet was aaproved and I waited 30 minutes, called back and played the same wager again. It was approved again.

Both games started at 10:30 EST. At 11:30 EST, (Suns winning by 5, Portland Total is 86, both at the half. At 11:30 EST, I get a voicmail to call Bowman. I call them back minutes later, and they told me my bets were over the limit and would be voided. I could have $500. They said the operator and the line manager made mistakes. I understand mistakes, but once a bet is approved, I thin it is absurd to later void a bet once teh games have strated because the line manager took more than he wanted. This isn't a case of me taking advantage of a typo line or something similar. Over the past three yeara I have played 100's of 2 Team NBA parlays (including totals) with no mention of a $500 limit.

I'd be interested in reactions to this and to other issues with Bowman. Thanks.

[Phil]

Playday, I couldn't agree more with you about the downhill spiral of Bowmans. Likwise, I've been with them for 5 years and lately (especially the last 2 months) their service is just horrid.

Hoops lines that are supposed to come out at certain times that NEVER do. Totals that NEVER get put up. halftimes that are put up at least SEVEN minutes after the half ends (no doubt to iron out any moves - god forbid that Gary takes a hit)

They are well on their way to becoming a lost speck of a memory in the world of offshore sportsbooks .


And I have asked NUMEROUS TIMES to speak to a line maker or someone in a position of authority about some of their changes in policy. And always have I recieved nothing but the RUNAROUND!

Hell I know that they won't change their policies cause of my griping but AT LEAST could they have the decency to admit that they are instituting these things cause they're SCARED of taking a hit on an unflattened out number.

They give me excuses that these things are a occuring due to testing of their new online system. What a bunch of bs. What the hell does that have to do with when you bring your lines out.

A little honesty is all i'm asking. Admit that they're scared of anyone other than a total square. But they can't even do that.

bye bye gary

[Cashman]

Playday,

If that is what happened then what Bowmans did was crooked and totally unethical. If a bet is approved by both the operator and the manager then it should be honoured. For them to cancel a bet at halftime is 100% inexcusible. To me that is fraud. What the helI is the purpose of approving a bet? I have an account with Bowmans and have not had any problems to date. My average play is around a nickel. I often get put on hold for a few secs for approval but have not had any problems with them at all. I hope you still have that voicemail. It may come in handy. I find it hard to believe they would do something so stupid and shady. I hope this a all a mistake.


[This message has been edited by Cashman (edited 02-16-2000).]

[Hamhog]

I had something similar happen.
Not quite as bad.

They had a line up on something that looked questionable. I asked the clerk to verify the line was good, as I intended to scalp it.
The clerk spoke to a line manager and said, yeah, the line is good. I asked him again to verify the line. He came back again and said, yeah, it is still good.

I made my play at Bowmans and then at another out. A couple of hours later I got a call from Bowmans telling me my play was no good as I had gotten a bad line.

Though I am am not real happy with Bowmans, I am into them a bit. What am I going to do, rake them over the coals? They have always paid. I should have known better than to try to take a questionable line. That type of move usually works out poorly.

What you described is far worse than what happened in my case. I am very surprised.

Overall I consider Bowmans a pretty good book. If they really cancel approved bets after tip off, that will no longer be the case.

[bgeorgia]

A response to Playday from Bowman International

---

Bowman International would like to respond to the post made by Playday after reviewing his post of events on Tuesday.

Bowman International has always prided itself first and foremost on Customer Service and has been long recognized in the industry and in this forum to that effect.

We have reviewed the tapes, deposits and credits of this matter and find the above to be a slight fabrication of events. Bowman's investigation has discovered the following.

Playday made a deposit by credit card, which cleared at 6:08 PST.
At 6:26 PST he made the two-team parlay as he has stated for $2,000.

The operator accepted the wager, which was over the limit for that type of parlay, in error.

Bowman's limit policies on NBA 2 team parlays are as follows:

2 NBA sides parlayed - $2,000
1 NBA side to 1 NBA total - $500

Based on these limits, the wager should have been rejected.

Playday was contacted at approximately 6:30 PST and told of the error. He was upset and before Bowman's could offer him $1000 on the parlay, which we intended to do, he informed us to cancel the wager and return all funds to his credit card and hung up.

This was done and his credit card was credited back the full amount of his deposit at 6:39 PST.

All this took place well in advance of the game.

There was never a second parlay wager made.
The game had not started when Playday had been contacted.

We have all the tapes and records to this effect.

Bowman's has taken great strides over the past few months to address all of the issues that have been mentioned in this forum. We feel we have been successful in that regard.

We have had some very positive feedback to the changes that have been made and it is unfortunate that this situation, which can be attributed to human error, has caused this post to be made filled with some inaccurate information.

Playday is welcome to contact the Customer Service Director at Bowman International if he wishes to discuss this matter further.

Thank you,

Bowman Management

[PlayDay]

Frankly, what else would I expect from Bowmans. They have never owned up to their actions. As was said in a previous post, there is never a "manager" to talk to. Their scenario is inaccurate, simply stated.

After this latest incident, and lying response, I will not be calling them to discuss it, nor using them. There are plenty of books who deal honestly, fairly and professionally.

I guess for 10.4K, Bowmans thought it in their best interest to defraud a loyal customer. I offer this to all my fellow players in the hope that those who wish to play with a sportsbook with integrity would understand how Bowmans does business.

[zippy]

OK, let's go double or nothing.

I propose a conference call between Bowman's, PlayDay and bgeorgia or some neutral arbitrator from Bettorsworld.

If Bowman's can produce tapes or other evidence that clearly establishes their version of events and disproves PlayDay's version (which they claim to have), then PlayDay not only rescinds his accusation that he's owed 10,400, but coughs up an additional 10,400 as a penalty.

If Bowman's cannot produce this evidence it claims it has, then Bowman's must give PlayDay the 10,400 it owes him, plus another 10,400 as a penalty.

bgeorgia to arbitrate and report back to us the results.

What do you say, guys? To accuse a book of canceling a wager an hour into a game or to accuse a player of lying are pretty serious allegations. Who's going to call the other side's bluff?

[OLD MAN]

WHEN YOU HIRE "SHARP" CLERKS AND "SHARP"
LINE MANAGERS, THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN.

[mls]

Actually all books listed on Bettorsworld agree to have claims investigated by Bettorsworld.

Ofc ourse, the double or nothing penalty won't fly, but it should be a simple matter to play the relevant tapes for someone at Bettorsworld. Should take about 5 minutes.

I believe Bowman's version, but if they refuse to let someone at Bettorsworld verify the tapes then obviously my faith in them is misplaced.

[Jeff]

Bowmans has offered to let us, Bettorsworld listen to the tapes all along. I aopologize if that wasn't made clear previously.

I will not pursue this any further unless the player contacts me and wishes to do so. If he does, we will call Bowmans together, and listen to the tapes.

If that happens, we will re-open this for discussion. Until then.........

I can be reached at Jeff@bettorsworld.com
24 hours a day.


[Note: This message has been edited by oddswiz]

[BigMoney]

Playday, surely you'll take them up on the offer to listen to the tapes with a Bettorsworld rep. Inquiring minds want to know what happened : )

[krackman]

Let me tell ya ! Bowmans has gone downhill, years ago they used to be the kings of the hill but they are a dinasour now. As someone said earlier they sweat the $ big time.

I still have an account there and have a good amount of $ there but would not recommend to anyone they change lines, give you runarounds,and have no management skills whatsoever.

Ohh!!! By the way the same stuff happened to me. I bet on a line football season and they called my house the next morning telling my wife to get me up and procceded to say I had no bet on the line they gave me it was wrong. There really is no use getting in to all this again I was so worked up over this at the time.

A perfect example of how they sweat the money tonight I bet $500 on a line because it was there max bet,And when I called back to bet another $500 you guessed it the line moved (LOL) my little $500 bet they had to put me on hold ,ask the pope for permission,and then raise the line....

This never happened years ago with them what a shame.....

[This message has been edited by krackman (edited 02-17-2000).]

[bgeorgia]

we are still waiting for the player to come forward and notify us as to his willingness to hear the tapes.

brian

[Cons]

Brian, I think in a case like this the tapes should be heard regardless. When someone comes in and claims that so and so happened, then a book's reputation is on the line. In such cases justice should be done, and the situation should be looked into.

We're not just talking about differences of opinion, but VERY IMPORTANT FACTS:

Player: "I called back and played the same wager again."
Bowmans: "There was never a second parlay wager made."

Player: "Both games started at 10:30 EST. At 11:30 EST, I get a voicmail from Bowmans...
Bowmans: "The game had not started when Playday had been contacted."

[mls]

Since Jeff of Bettorsworld has now made clear that Bowman's is more than willing to let him verify their version with the tapes it is obvious that PlayDay has been less than truthful. (I assume he was not aware that Bettorsworld would provide such tape verification when he made his wild accusations.)