Multiple Lines - Our take!

[premiereleague]

So the issue of multiple lines and how fair this practice is has really created a stir on this site. There has been a few requests for a BM's opinion....... here is what we think.

First, we feel there are actually 4 different types of players.

Player 1 "Public". The recreational player. He plays because he intends to win. He roots for his team every time he has a few $ on the game, and over time he will get juiced out.

Player 2 "wiseguy" He sits at home and studies his games using all the info available, and today there is alot! He may also pay a professional handicapper (not a tout service). His plays generally win and over time this player may actually generate a profit.

Player 3 "steamer" This player may actually be on a radio call, moving games, or following them. Depending on the success of the outfit and the season they are having..... they generally win over time. Any of you who doubt this, remember baseball last year.

Player 4 "middler" This player doesn't care one way or another He is looking for a point and half or more or a free 5 cents or better.
This player "will win" How much he wins in a particular book depends on how sharp the linesmaker is. He is sometimes a necessary evil.

Now that we have outlined these players you will agree that a book only has a real shot at player 1. These players are generally smaller players. No offense to Scotty, but bookmaking today is a whole different game. With all the info available, players are much smarter. Some of the players we handle are not even allowed to walk into a Vegas casino. Hang out an opening number all day and you will be sweeping the streets pretty soon.

Sometimes players 2,3and 4 may be confused and mixed into one category "wiseguys". Sometimes their action will equal and even surpass that of player 1. There is nothing wrong if a book choses to book their action separately using different lines.

In any event the patterns of these players are very distinct and depending on the volumes you deal of each of them, a sportsbook should should decide to deal multiple lines if it increases their bottom line. Every player wants to win, and every player wants the book to stay around to pay him. To say that a book robs its players by dealing a different line to the squares is ludicrous. A book does take the losers money to pay the winners. So who is robbing who???

We feel that if you don't like the number dealt to you just don't play into it. We also don't agree with all the numbers on the screen and therefore we are quite confident that there are alot of them every day that you would like in our book.

Hope this helps!
Eddie

[mls]

I think it is commendable that Premiere League admits to double dealing lines.

If it is the books right to deal different lines depending on the customers betting patterns then it is simply the right of the customer to know about it - so he can make an informed decision where to play.

Premiere League has decided to deal different lines to different people and they are up front about it.

Since I will not knowingly play at a book which double deals lines I will be closing my 5 figure account with Premiere League.

(There are simply too many great books out there that do not deal double lines - many that have live lines for viewing before you login so you know you are getting the same line.)

Although Premiere League and I will be parting company I must again commend them on their honesty and candor.

[boris]

"We feel that if you don't like the number dealt to you just don't play into it."

I have no problem with this comment at all, and if your betting patterns are that obvious that you can be read like a book, then you probably should take a good hard look at yourself, to use an Aussie parlance.

[premiereleague]

Dear Mls

Is there any where in our post where we said "we deal multiple lines". We simply gave an opinion.

With regards to you decision to close your account. Whether or not your account is 5 figures is immaterial. We have always given you value for your action and paid. You have never once complained about us having clone or unbettable lines.

We are sorry to hear that you will be leaving, based on an opinion!! In any event we wish you the best of luck.

[Bob]

I'm sorry MLS but I don't buy this "double dealing lines" stuff. These guys are running a business and are trying to make money. God knows we all want the book to make money so if we win we'll get paid.

Where do you think they get the cash to send you your checks? They get them from the poor saps who buy the Rams at -7.5 instead of -6.5. I think that's great. It's irrelevant to me what line you are getting. I only care what line I'm getting...and that someone out there is losing his shirt so I'll get paid.

By the way I just called Premierleague about setting up a 5 figure account because they sound like they know what they're doing.

[premiereleague]

Boris

Generally a player making substantial size wagers should get th BM's attention very quickly. His frequency of plays and wins, the times he makes his plays, etc. all tell a very big tale. It isn't the players fault at all. It is all a matter of good BM skills and awareness.

Good Luck

[Boomer]

MLS...

I had to offer an opinion on this as Premiere League is one of my favorite outs.

You've been with Premiere League for awhile so obviously their lines have been working for you. Yet now that they come here and admit that they sanction the practice of dealing multiple lines (I've yet to see evidence of it), you want to close your account.

I will tell you here and now that I don't care if Premiere League deals twenty lines, the ones they are giving me are THE BEST ONES I GET FROM ANYONE!!!

As a fellow who spends his day looking for value, Premiere League is indispensable for me, whether it be baseball or basketball.

What do you care if they deal multiple lines if the lines you are getting are working for you. I assume they were or you wouldn't be in there.

Give this guy a break for having the cajones to voicing an opinion. I wish some others were half as honest as he is.

[mls]

As Bob proves, the books should be up front about whether they double deal lines - it might even bring increase business!

Those of us who do not want to go through the worry of disquising our betting patterns can simply take our business to any of the numerous books that deal everyone the same line (except perhaps very high limit players).

Hey boris - some of my favorite outs are in Australia. You can view their lines before you login so there is no double dealines lines there.

The issue of whether double dealing is right or wrong has been beat to death in this forum - but as long as the book is up front about it there is no right to complain.

Some players, like me, will not play there - but some players, like Bob, will want to play there!

It all evens out and everyone is happy - as long as the the books policy is known.

[intheknow]

Hey MLS wake up!!
How do you know for sure that a book deals only one line for all players? Any BM who has any experience has dealt different lines to different players. Maybe alot of them won't admit it, but it happening everywhere

[bbuster]

MLS-

It is your perogative to do whatever you want with your money and have accounts with whomever and wherever you want, but I think it is a diservice to Premiere league and members in this forum for you to say after Premiere steps up and is the only book willing to add their 2 cents about what seems like a sore subject( IMO it is a non-issue, they throw me any number they want and I can bet or pass) that you are taking your business from them for something that they did not even say. What Eddie said was he sees nothing wrong with books dealing different lines. Unless I missed it nowhere did I read that Premiere deals different lines, just that if books want to it is fine in thier opinion.
Also how can we expect books to participate in the forum if when they do somebody does'nt like something that was said and closes their account.
If that happened to me and I was the book, I would stop responding all together to posts in here.

[Hamhog]

A book that deals multiple lines is more likely to be profitable/more likely to be able to pay you when you win.

The book has to make a profit.
If they can do it through line management, more power to them.

Would you rather play at shop that deals one 30 cent line, or deals multiple 20 cent lines?

Books also need balanced action.
If they dealt the public the wise guy line, they would have an imbalance on the favorite.
If they gave the wise guys the public line, the dogs would probably be heavy.

How do you expect the bookmaker to balance their action?

Another question, is a player who plays at multiple shops really that much different than a book that deals different lines to different players?

[This message has been edited by Hamhog (edited 02-04-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Hamhog (edited 02-04-2000).]

[premiereleague]

Thanks bbuster

There were over 75 posts on the subject and not one from an offshore. We totally stand behind our opinions and hope that our participation today at least sheds some light.

Don't worry, I won't stop posting.

Eddie

[Cons]

To be honest when I read the opening post I was under the impression that Premier League dealt double lines. But technically speaking they didn't "admit" to it. Eddie, do you?

Bob, you sending a five-figure sum simply because you thought they deal double-lines?

I still side with MLS, believing it to be a dodgy tactic for a sportsbook to employ. Doesn't it also lower the turnover? I mean if I can't get the line that's up there because some BM thinks I'm stupid enough to settle for half a point less, then they simple don't get the bet. Who loses? Me? I think it's the book that misses out on the action.

I'll go elsewhere to place my bet. And in the meantime I'll pack my bags at the place that tried to juice me twice and put that money elsewhere.

[BigMoney]

I'm partially responsible for starting this controversial thread, so you know how I feel: Dealing more than one line is in the book's favor, and not in any type of player's favor.

But even I've backed off of my initial accusation that it is an unfair, greedy tactic; because each side is actually just trying to get the best advantage.

mls, I wouldn't ditch a sportsbook just because I found out they were dealing multiple lines to different players. Instead, I'd shop as hard as I could; and if they continued to offer me the consensus Don Best screen line, I'd keep on passing them up. Eventually, I'd take my money out just because they would be of no use.

But if what Boomer says is true, their "sharp" line must be different than the clones at least some of the time. If so, then there is value being offered.

[ShiftySheik]

Eddie, It's good to hear a BM's perspective. A book that's getting hurt by middlers might solve the problem by dealing a different line...it's all part of the game between the player and the BM. I've heard of some top notch books using 3 lines for different bettor profiles. I think that a book with high volume could do just fine dealing 1 line. Without volume a book has to do whatever is necessary to keep their risk to a minimum. It's just business, it's not unethical.