Dealing Two Different Lines

[Cons]

Pnanda. If we both drive up to the same gas station and I buy fuel at $1.40, and they look at you and charge you $1.50 , is that fair?

Sure, different gas stations have different prices. Who's saying that's wrong? But does the same gas station charge customers differently? Are there two different prices posted when you drive in?

Sting, I have to disagree about the point that posting old lines is great advertising. I guess it will have people signing up, but if those lines aren't real then these people might be a little irritated. But I think you made an excellent point about no books responding to this thread. It's a little worrying now that I think about it.

I would like to see some sportsbooks (or more people who have worked in the industry) provide some insight here. It's not like we're dug in the trenches or anything. Maybe some books are afraid of admitting to the practice or justifying it, for fear of being shot down. But I think the spread has moved on to target the issue and not the books involved.

I think we started a great debate here, because instead of terrorizing a book for doing something wrong we are addressing a real issue. Betmaker seems to be caught in the crossfire, quite by chance. But it's the issue that's important and it's good to see a debate with all types of views provided.

I don't bet pointspreads, or US sports, so I'm probably least affected, as the other sports probably aren't set up to dish out double lines. There's also much more juice on them so even lines moves aren't as common. At least that has been my experience.

But look at this. The superbowl is coming up. Let's make up a more even, fictitious moneyline: say both teams are dead even, a pick'em game.

Now what if the book deals "-120, evens" to those living in the area of team A, and simultaneously deals "evens, -120" to those living in Team B's territory.

Is this fair? Sure you can bet the other way, but obviously that won't be as common an occurance as bettors swallowing these lines. We can bring middlers and scalpers in to the equation, but to keep things simple: do you think this is a fair practice? We're not talking about the line moving, as mentioned before, because there's nothing wrong with that. It's part of the business. If you are getting hit on one side, what do you do, keep the same line? Obviously not.

But if this was the actual line (or should I say lines ) being given out, then is it fair?

[mls]

Sting - Betmaker must have treated you well indeed!

First, they DO deal double lines. I have 2 friends who had accounts there whose odds were the same as the "guest" lines.

First, when we compared their actual lines with mine the extra 1/2 point on basketball games was obvious. Again these were real accounts, not guest accounts.

Second, reno was kicked out of Betmaker for winning as I recall. (but that is not the issue here)

Sting, Betmaker's double dealing line scam works because their small loyal customers blindly trust them to deal a fair line. You blindly bought into their lame excuses (such as that nonsense about a non-bettable or delayed guest line), and their welcoming winners, because you obviously trust them.

Betmaker sold you a puff of smoke because it really is easy to take advantage or cheat a friend or someone you trust. That is what this thread is all about ...

[Jeff]

Cons, I'll have to give your example more thought. At 1st thought, I still have no problem with that. Again in my opinion, the book can deal a different line to each and every player if the choose to.

Remember, sportsbetting on both sides of the counter is all about obtaining an edge.

MLS, I think the scenario with a 2+ line book is a little different than your example.

Let's throw out the wiseguy line for the time being. I'd imagine that betmaker has very few wiseguys. They don't want them. Let's say for the sake of this argument that they don't deal the wiseguy line.

So now we have probably 90%, the majority, getting dealt a line, that may be a little favorite biased. a half point here, a half point there.

There's no law that says betmaker, or any other books lines have to be exactly the same as everyone elses. If they choose to throw a hook on select games, and in turn this increases their hold, this is nothing more than damn smart bookmaking.

The point I'm trying to make here is that the little guy isn't being singled out here, it's the guy in the minority, the wiseguy, who's being picked on.

If they were going thru their client base, and looked for dead bang suckers, and started juicing the numbers they give these guys, then I would agree with your standpoint. Fact is though, there's no need to play with this guys lines, because he's going to lose no matter what numbers you give him.

[BigMoney]

I love it. We haven't had this much audience participation since Reno was posting regularly.

Cons, mls, it's no use debating whether this practice is right or wrong. It is done, and is fairly common with some exceptions (maybe all British BMs).

What we can do as the responsible public is find out which books follow this practice and which don't. Then we can pass along this information here to players who want to know. Books who deal double lines are (a) not much use to the serious player, because the line rarely has any value; and (b) to be avoided by the casual player who only wants to have 1-2 outs, because the line will be generally shaded against him.

[ShiftySheik]

Books from all over the world deal different lines to different players. It's not just Betmaker and the books in the Carribean. Cons is incorrect, international books in the UK and Australia also use this tactic. I remember a post by Polar several months ago. He said, if you really want to see some good lines, post up with a book and start betting $100 parlays on all the big favorites. Once the book realizes that they were set up, you'll be on the wiseguy line forever.

[Jeff]

Bigmoney....your point B assumes that the casual player can't tie his own shoes. I don't believe that to be the case these days, at least not to the point it once was.

It could be said that a casual player SHOULD be with a book like this. It's a dream come true to a casual player with 2 outs. If he has two outs, he must be looking for some different numbers.

Shifty is correct as well. British bookmakers are not exempt from this practice........

This practice has been used by some for as long as the industry has existed.

[STING]

Come on MLS, here is your exact quote in the locked thread below responding to your own statement that Betmaker.com deals double lines:


"I personally know this is true since all I have to do is compare my lines with a "guest" lines. The "guest" lines are for the general public and try to rip an extra 1/2 point from the casual favorite bettor."


So which is it?

[mls]

Both.

Actual lines early last week - before my friends closed their ripoff accounts.

Guest lines yesterday (since obviously I could not check my friends lines anymore).

[BigMoney]

Jeff, "casual" probably needs to be defined.

What I really mean is this: any player who is like the majority of bettors, taking mostly favorites and popular teams and playing at only one book, should seek a book that does not deal double lines.

[mls]

In the final analysis I believe it the players right to know whether his book deals double lines.

Several posters here say lots of books do it - name one other than Betmaker ...

If there is nothing wrong with double dealing lines then why is everyone so concerned with keeping it a secret as to which books do it?

Don't players have the right to know??

[Jeff]

I don't think it's amtter of keeping it secret. It's more a matter of not knowing for sure.

I know of books that did it several years ago, and I know of books that did it recently.

I don't know if those very same books still do it, and don't want to give false info or "label" a book.

Again I'll say that in many instances, the line that the majortiy gets is BETTER than the wiseguy line.

This thing is being blown out of proportion to make a book that deals two lines look criminal.

[STING]

MLS, no offense, but you posted about the guest lines earlier in the week, not yesterday.

You refer to Betmaker as a SCAM when nearly every other book is said to do the same thing as supported by many of the top players who have come into this thread suggesting just that (Shifty Sheik, Scotty and the gang).

Maybe you are right. Maybe it is wrong. This is a great topic but stop coming on blasting Betmaker for something you will likely encounter everywhere else you play in the industry. If they are all engaging in this practice, perhaps we should boycott them ALL....but that's just not going to happen now is it?

[ShiftySheik]

The books that deal multiple lines like to to keep it a secret. I don't want to name books since my BMs don't neeed any negative publicity. I never thought it was a big deal until I saw all of these posts calling it a ripoff.

[STING]

All these posts? I think it's only been 2 or 3 people who have posted against the practice actually. Maybe there are others waiting in the wings but you are probably right Shifty, most don't think it's a big deal or have not until now.

For me I shop for best line and if Betmaker does not have the best line, I shop elsewhere just as I would at a car dealership.

[AussieVamp2]

well, I jus thad a look at the college basketball games at betmaker - they were exactly the same - only one was different, but it had changed from time I loaded the very slow visitor page, to logging in and looking at the other one - syracuse game from 9 to 9.5, so obviously not sticking all small punters on that 'inflated' line immediately