Bowman's Unethical Behavior

[Shawn]

Well...

Cons' point about Euro books being safe if valid, and I think Australian books would also make his list, but I'm of the opinion that many books in Costa Rica and the Caribbean are safe places to play as well.

While I can appreciate Reno's frustration with the European books' reluctance to go on Don Best, I think for those of us who are not limit players and yet willing to put in effort, the Euro books can offer value to the punter: I often find lines a half-point to a whole point different in football, and can usually do no worse than "vig-free" betting on every game once I factor in my Euro and Offshore books when school is out and it's time for betting bases.

The others are right...soccer is where it's at for the European books and for those shops offering 3-way soccer betting, "anyone who's anyone" is on the (somewhat more primitive) soccer equivalent to Don Best. Betmaker is listed there now I believe...an offshore first.

Shawn

[tim]

CONS, no one is questioning whether your money is safe at Bowman's but there have been an unending stream of questions about their ethics and horrific customer service. They have never bothered to upgrade their system despite an avalanche of complaints that they change the line after a wager has been called by the customer. There is an ample supply of books who don't pull this garbage and pay when they're supposed to. Bowmans is the bottom of the barrel and anyone can do better than these "we can do nothing wrong" idiots!

[Hamhog]

The Euro books golf offerings are sub par.

The ties lose absolutely kills any potential.
It doesn't matter how many daily or tournament matchups they offer as long as they keep the -110,-110, ties lose policy.

What good is it if the book is stable, but only offers super juiced bets.

Even if you do find some soft spots in their lines, their limits are very low.
VC will only take $250 on a golf matchup.
Think about it.

I know of some Caribbean books that will take at least 2 dimes on golf. I bet Olympic would take more.

What was the last Bettorsworld endorsed book to have problems? Rich's superbook? My understanding is everyone got paid.

As far as Bowmans line changes, I think it is an old issue. Everyone in the forum should know by now that if you call Bowmans near game time, or are following steam, you may have the line changed.

I think their system is clerk quotes a line, player bets a line, clerk gets the play approved. The time lag from step 1 to 3 allows for the line move. I have had line moves on internet books between the click and the confirmation. It is just the risk you run.

I highly doubt the charges on Bowmans character. Since day one, their customer service has been very professional. If you play a dime or less and can get your plays in a little early, they are a top notch out.
If you play late, follow steam, play large, they are still pretty good, but there are probably better places that cater more to that type of player.

[Boomer]

Regarding safety of funds, I would put Antigua in the same category as the European books in the terms of safety. My reasoning for this is the attitude of the Antiguan government. They desire to make Antigua the internet gaming capital of the world, and you know what...they're succeeding.

You want to find out how to have instant credibility in the internet Sportsbook/Casino business. Open up in Antigua. They don't tolerate any nonsense in the way of slow-pay or non-pay and the $100,000 annual licensing fee keeps out the flakes.

Curacao, regardless of their licensing requirements (which I am unfamiliar with), has come together as a desirable location. Sportsbooks there banded together when there was a potential no-pay (4 Aces) and as time goes on, I find myself using more and more books there as primary outs.

I hate to say this, as I have friends there, but Costa Rica, along with the many solid sportsbooks that reside there, has too many fungii in the way of Sportsbooks. Until Costa Rica adopts a no-stiffs policy and bands together as a community ala Antigua or Curacao, they will be playing third fiddle way behind those two.

[DOGS THAT BARK]

Hamhog I agree 100% that the others have much better lines in golf than Euros but name just ONE that has matchups all 4 days.That is my complaint.I detest the ties lose but have been having no choice if I want to bet matchups on thur and friday rounds.

[The Phantom]

Boomer I disagree with you. Although Costa Rica has no laws pro or against sportsbooks. The some of the most respectable books (not all) are in Costa Rica. I know this because I live sometime in Costa Rica and still spend a few months a year over there. I even have friends in the costarican goverment (like for example the legal advisor to the president) and they have no intention on messing around with the books but do not want any trouble with the US by legalizing them. Although he has also said that they might be willing to work a deal with the sportsbooks but all of them rather stay low profile, which I think is smart. I know of A LOT of sportsbooks that have moved from Antigua and other caribbean islands to Costa Rica because of the better technology, the better personal and the better english they speak and other reasons not worth mentioning. I beleive that the country has nothing to do with if a sportsbook is reliable or not. To start a con operation you can do it anywhere. You remember SDB Global, for me the best sportsbook in the world in their time, they were located in Costa Rica and they were investigated by the costarican goverment and were cleared to do business, there mistake was having the office in wall street.
Anyways I believe sportsbooks in Costa Rica are as reliable as anywhere else


The Phantom

[Cons]

Shawn, perfectly right. Australian books are just as safe as those in Europe. They are based in a stable political system (much more so than any other country I know), and there's regulation in place to ensure that the environment is a healthy one.

Bowmans is a class out, totally safe, great people to deal with, but unfortunately there's a lot of unanswered queries about their line-shifting policies. Even if their system works that way, I think they should work around it because changing the line after a bet has been called is a vile act. Lots of books do it, but many more adhere to honoring given lines. Once you get the line, I believe you should also get the bet.

Boomer, I can't agree with you about Antigua. You simply cannot compare England, Australia, or a few other well-regulated places to the Caribbean, Antigua or not. Antigua ain't no angel, and there's nothing to cry home about over there. Anything can happen over there, so it's just a question of knowing a book and being able to trust it because of the people that run it. It's impossible to say, "Yeah, I trust this book because it's based in Antigua." In itself, this strictly means nothing. But give me the name of a book based in England and you can be sure of them simply because they are based there. The fact that they are based in the UK speaks for itself.

To sum up, I must say that if I was to name one book that I feel will blow the competition apart (or at least race ahead of the rest), it has to be Sportingbet. These guys are going to be big, make that BIG. Trust me, give them a little time and they'll be up there with the industry giants like William Hill, Ladbrokes, or Coral.

[Boomer]

Phantom...

I never said Costa Rica was a bad place. Some of the best sportsbooks in the world are located there. However, as a supportive environment which encourages consumers to generate internet sports or casino wagering business there, it is my opinion that environment is non-existent.

If I had a problem with a book in Antigua (which I never have), or Curacao, the other books on the island would not tolerate a book drastically slow-paying or non-paying as it would blemish the area. The biggest problem the books have is getting consumers to trust them for $500, not $5,000 or $10,000 the bigger players send. A bad rap on a book in specific AREA would negatively impact the other solid books there and all over the world, as this technology is still developing and consumer-confidence for the average Joe is pretty low. Most people not involved in the business do not even know about Offshore Sportsbooks, let alone are they willing to send money there.

If I told someone in Costa Rica that there is a group of Sportsbooks giving them a bad name by their actions (which there is), I wouldn't even know who to call to disseminate this information. Right now, as far as I know it, it's every man for himself there.

[Boomer]

Cons...

I agree that Antigua does not have the resources that an England or an Australia has. The bottom line for me is do I feel comfortable keeping my money there. The answer is for me, more so than any other place mentioned is yes.

I believe the Antiguan government is doing things right there along with the sportsbooks that cooperate with one another in the way of transfers.

I don't know, however, what would happen if a sportsbook failed (as businesses do), if the funds would be guaranteed by anyone. If not, that would be the last step in the equation.

[The Phantom]

Boomer

To be honest I connot see your whole area problem. Let's say I got con in a Miami computer store, does this mean that I should never again buy a computer in Miami. I don't think so. Since when do you have to take care of not only your business but your competitors business too. If a I am going to trust a sportsbook with my money, it is not going to be because it is located in Antigua or England or Australia or Costa Rica. I am going to trust a sportsbook with my money by the way they handle my money and the opinion of fellow bettors. I don;t think anyone is trustfull enough to open an account with a sportsbook they never heard of before with a big amount. I beleive in a normal deposit, try them out, see how fast and easythey pay out, and if I feel they have done what I expect them to, then I will trust them with more and more money. Anyways the limits of a sportsbook will tell you how much tey will let you win before considering you a wiseguy and probably close your account. If they have small limits you know they wont let you win $100.000 they will probably close you before you get there, or even smaller amounts. If you win big, look for a big sportsbook and try them out little by little and always ask for advise in here (i think its a great place to). If you are a small bettor, you have a wider range of options. Most sportsbooks are honest, even though they might have problems here and there. The open 1 day close tommorrow sportsbooks are not a big thing now. They realize they make more money and it's a lot easier to have a solid book than open and close operations. Although they still exist and we must be careful the area has nothing to do with it. I can name at least 40 sportsbooks that I know that are based in Costa Rica that have been operating for years. Without any regulation and without needing mommy (other sportsbooks) to spank them when they were late with a payout.

The Phantom

[Boomer]

Phantom...

We are not talking about wiseguys, which most books will agree, do not make up their largest profit center.

We are talking about the public...casual or recreational gamblers that either went to Vegas to wager or maybe never wagered before or had a local out. The more books that fail in this fledgling powerhouse of an industry, the more of a black eye it puts on offshore gaming as a whole.

Also, please don't present your point of view to discourage sportsbooks from coming to one another's aid. It is in our best interest that they do. It is the reason I am okay with leaving 50 to 60 dimes at any book in Antigua.

Trust me, it will benefit everyone if escrow accounts become a prerequisite to opening a sportsbook. That way you could see the bankroll of a sportsbook and see how they're doing. Everyone has a bad day, week, month, year in this business.

The trick to determining longevity is to see the book's "bankroll" and whether or not they can weather a storm. Minus -110 on either side does not guarantee success if the overhead is too high, they have a run of bad luck, and the bankroll is too small.

[The Phantom]

Boomer I was also talking about regular bettors, just gave an example of the only problem (cash flow area) you could have. I know a lot of casual players that got kicked out because they had a real good lucky streak.

I don't mind sportsbooks interacting with each other. I just don't think that will make me decide on a sportsbook or not and neither is the area.

I have read ther posts from you and you seem like a great guy with lots of admirers, I just disagree with your point in why you trust Antigua better than other places like for example Costa Rica

The Phantom

[Boomer]

Phantom...

Thank you for the compliment, but you must be confusing me with Reno. He's the one who's admired. I'm the one with more balls than brains.

The reason I am so high on Antigua is because they took the initiative to court internet gaming businesses. They have a policy intact that I haven't seen them stray from. They created a workable plan by having high licensing fees, and they are in my opinion a model to be emulated. In addition, they are very, very user- and sportsbook-friendly.

Antigua stood up to the U.S. and in doing so got a jump on the rest of the world. It is my opinion that their "gamble" and foresight will pay off heavily.

[AussieVamp2]

Shawn

Whatchewtalkin about? The somewhat more primitive Don Best for soccer? Are you talking about some secret soccer bookie thing none of us know about?

[Boomer]

By the way, how the heck did this get under the Bowman's Unethical Behavior thread. Jeff hates when this happens. (Smiley Face)