Lou's Views, OSGA, Internet Gaming Comm, etc.

[Leo Walters2]

I read Lou's column on the OSGA and I think he hit it right on the head. I have already posted my experiences and views of the OSGA, and some new names of "Watch Dog" agencies are cropping up. This business is in dire need of something like this, but from what I have seen in he past, all of these agencies were set up by Books to promote themselves, or only recommended by these supposed "Independent Watch Dog" sites if they paid them or advertised with them. The only way to have something like this work is for it to be started and run as an independent agency, kind of like the Better Business Bureau. Every Sports Book that wanted to be endorsed by this operation would be charged a fee and if qualified have something like the "Bettorsworld Seal Of Approval" on their site. There would have to be conditions set up, Data Bases made up of who is in charge of each Book, Who is to be contacted in the event of a dispute, Banking records, etc. More importantly, to get it started a person from the agency to visit the Book Before it Endorses it. It would take allot in the beginning to get started. I would even say an inspection of the locations before they are endorsed. Visits to Antigua, Curacao, St. Kitts, Costa Rica, Dominica, Margarita, St. Maarten, Jamaica is where the bulk of the Sports Books Are. With allot of groundwork laid out and contacts made before traveling, all interested Books can be visited, The people in charge interviewed, and all aspects of their business inspected before they get the "Seal Of Approval" From this agency. All of the participating books would have to pay a one time fee to first join, as it would be most expensive in the beginning gathering data and visiting locations. After that a yearly fee worked out where the operating expenses of the "Better Sports Book Business Agency" or whatever it is called can operate. When there is a dispute, the agency could be contacted and deal with it, and Sports Books that did not operate 100% above board would be listed as such, and also minor disputes that happen due to honest errors could be posted, and the book touted about how they took care of the mistake immediately. As far as I am concerned, from what I see on the Internet, The list of Sports books on "Bettorsworld" Is the closest thing to a place that tells it like it is. These posting forums are one of the few places where disputes are posted, and sometimes replied to by the Sports Book In question, and also one of the sites where people have posted about Books that have cheated them out of money, which 99% of the time is NOT one of the sites you see endorsed here. I for one have spoken with Jeff of Oddswiz about expanding "The List" section of this site to include more information about the Books Listed, and to create a list of books that have been reported as cheating customers and were not able to be contacted to settle the problem. This Business sorely needs something like this, but the few out there who are trying to appear to be Independent are dependent on the advertising dollars of the Books that advertise with them, so that kind of says it all. Sports Books are spending hundreds of thousands, into millions of dollars a year advertising. A couple of grand a year to get something like this started and maintained can only help them and make the business look more legitimate.

Just My Opinion,
Leo Walters

[reno]

Leo, a long time ago in Bettorsworld I talked about sportsbooks banding together and forming their own Agency. This Agency would serve to arbitrate disputes and, by bonding every sportsbook member, protect players from getting stiffed. It would pay off for sportsbooks to join because member books would naturally attract many more customers than non-member books.

Many sportsbook owners are maverick-types, suspicious of anything outside of their direct control. And that, as I see it, is the major barrier to creating a unifying Agency. However, if someone can get the ball rolling, who knows, such an Agency could indeed become a welcome reality.

[Jeff]

I wasn't going to get involved......but here's my 2 cents as well.....

I called the OSGA when they 1st started. At the time, there was no web site. I called their 800 number and played dumb.

The guy named 3 sportsbooks, and told me that for a fee paid to them, I could join the OSGA and get all of the OSGA benefits, which included bonuses and what not at the three sportsbooks listed.

I told him I wasn't interested, but would like to be kept "informed", so I gave him a mailing address unique to them.

Within days I was quickly bombarded with junk mail from various touts, and yes, the three OSGA sportsbooks.

While talking to the guy on the phone, I asked specific questions of him, of which he had no clue, all pertaining to the industry in general.

That's that. It was a long time ago, and perhaps they have changed their ways, I don't know. Just passing along my personal experience. Please don't tell me this didn't happen. It did.

I agree with Leo and Reno about some sportsbooks not wanting to work together. It's virtually impossible to get them to do it, and quite frankly, I guess I can't blame them.

I don't think there could ever be an independent watchdog agency, unless the gov't's of the different countries were involved, and I don't see that happening.

Any agency/web site, including bettorsworld, will always be questioned if their income is obtained from the sportsbooks.

Personally, I don't like the term "watchdog". On this site, I'd rather think that we present a forum/site in which the people can be the watchdogs.

Nor do I think regulation or independent agencies are needed.

No different from the illegal market here in the states. There are bookamkers that have been practicing their trade for years and years. Why? Because they pay, and have built that respect over the years.

Hey, I can still lay claim to having NEVER been stiffed offshore, as I'm sure MANY of you can.

I can say this as a result of the sportsbetting community sticking together, both players and books, to weed out all the trash. The internet has made this possible.

Imagine what this industry would be like if there were no internet???

[KnowItAll]

I agree with Jeff. It is all up to us. The closest thing to a watchdog group we will ever have is each other. That is why forums like this are so important. We are free to share our experiences, good or bad, with the world.

[Leo Walters2]

It seems very true. Something like this is next to impossible to set up. I for one feel like this site is the one place to get un biased information about sports books. Even though this site does take money for advertising, the Books listed here, when there is a problem posted and brought to the attention of the people who run the site, the problem is addressed. There are some good books out there that are not listed here, but in my opinion a customer cannot go wrong signing up with a book endorsed by BETTORSWORLD. With the exception of some of the "shills" that post for books, which are usually "busted" after a couple of posts, the truth about problem Books usually comes out in this forum.

[STING]

Leo, that is so true. Jeff's post confirms what I feared early on regarding the junk mail received after his call to OSGA. Can OSGA that this will not happen now? If this is not the case any more, then more power to them. one of the worst possible things they can do is give one's email address to another party. That's exactly what we do NOT want. I also agree with Lou that the description of their services is a little to deceptive.

I feel that any well run site with the best of intentions will have to rid themselves of an advertiser once it's discovered that the book is failing to pay people. It's not the easiest of decisions since this certainly means a loss of income, but in the long run, a bad reputation will cost a whole lot more.

I also know for a fact that Bettorsworld has turned down advertisers mainly because they are too new and Bettorsworld would prefer to feature those books with a proven track record.

As far as the books to the left, all have proven track records for the most part and those that stand out as being relatively new: Wizard of Odds and Premiere League come to mind, these have developed stellar reps in a very short period of time not just here at Bettorsworld, but in the sportsbetting arena in general. Win City represents the Starnet family of books.

When legitimate complaints have been brought up about any of these books, Bettorsworld has been given the thumbs up to intervene.

The negative comments made about these books collectively might represent 2% of all clients of all these books put together. I've come to realize that most of the criticism lodged towards a handful of these books comes from those who have not actually signed up with them, but instead have read things from others (NASA comes to mind). Unfortunately, it's the negative comments (even one) that scare people off.

I do feel this forum is where you will find the most unbiased info from people such as Reno and others who won't have their negative posts removed since they are speaking from firsthand experience and are not here to bash, only to offer their own personal fisrthand accounts. Rarely do we see Jeff or Brian come in bragging about how great a book is unless they have played with them or have had rewarding experiences with these books. I feel that a book willing to sponsor BWorld contests and offer press releases on a regular basis are operations that are going to be in this for the long run.