Las Vegas in the 1980s.......

[Polar]

As I watch this industry grow into a big overgrown chicken I want to reverse something that I might have said before about the Las Vegas bookies.

I want to give credit to the bookies who ran the Stardust, the Riv, Churchill, Little Ceasers, the Horseshoe, Palace Station, the Golden Nugget.

These people knew how to book. They didn't have Don Best to tell them what to do. They for the most part did not throw out middlers, scalpers. They learned how to deal with them. They learned from them!!! I think I learned alot from them. That was sports betting at its best.

Then came along Super Bookie. "Through out the winners he said". "Were Vegas, we can through out anyone we want". "We don't ever have to be out smarted again". "We don't have to compete with anyone trying to make money".

I would like to hear anyone of these persons opinion of this. Did you guys like the idea? Some of you were very good book makers. They (Vegas) put the handcuffs on and left them on. Never to challenge again........

[brett]

Polar, I agree with you 100%. Although I wasn't as active in this industry in the 80's it was definitely a better era for gambling. Too many people trying to get there hands on the pie now. Most of these sportsbooks only want squares now. They advertise like hell, promise you pagers, 10-20% sign-up bonuses, free bets, you name it. They want your initial deposit. Then when they find out you have Don Best the whole game changes. They stall you, change lines in mid-sentence, limit you on games, whatever it takes for them to be the complete opposite of bookies. These books only want you to lay 7 1/2 when every body else has got 7. If you want to try a really good book try Top of the World Sports. They are new but they are excellent. 5% juice on all football and basketball bets, good operators who never stall you on big plays and an owner who takes the time to talk with you and give you a feeling that he is a bookie from the old times. And their #'s aren't always Don Best clone #'s. If you're interested, e-mail me at: brettpuffer@suite224.net

[reno]

Polar, Vegas in the 80s was indeed a happening place for sportsbetting. However, I much prefer offshore betting in the 90s. I no longer need runners to call me with every line update and I don't have to front big cash to them, either. Vegas was and is very dangerous. I was bludgeoned unconscious and robbed. Runners ripped me off. My apartment was broke into and set on fire while I was on vacation. The unit was gutted and all my possesions were lost. The whole complex could have gone down.

And the danger has gotten worse. Runners are still being robbed. According to big A from Chicago, our old buddy Kent, still a runner, was just robbed and pistol whipped in his apartment.

Sure, Offshore has mostly clone joints. But there are still a number of progressive, independent-thinking bookies; and others--perhaps including Top of the World--are sure to emerge over time.

I also feel much safer having my money in offshore books then I ever did playing with privates and trusting runners. I know that our one-time Boss, Jeff, also got stiffed quite a bit from privates.

I love being part of a small home-based operation that now includes a trusted partner who is long-time sportsbetting professional from Vegas and expert computer programmer.

And I love the Don Best Screen. That makes what I do possible. In fact, I'm going to request that when I die, the Don Best Feed is hooked up in my casket, so I can still watch the line changes and scores.

[sfz1]

Polar, I agree 100%, I loved Little Ceasers, I spent many a day there, they had the best lines IMO, I got a kick out of the 1 craps table, 1 Black Jack table, a couple of slots and the coldest Schafer beer you could drink, memories, boy I loved that place.

[Phil]

Reno, does that mean if I hit REFRESH while you're in the coffin, that you'll come back to life

Actually I could see you rising from the dead...to haunt the clone joints of course.

[Polar]

Brett,

I do know about "Top of the world" and I would assume they are a real book. The people behind this Sportsbook are very sharp and I don't think there will be a problem with any kind of better there, sharp or not!

Reno,

You are %100 percent correct! The dangers in Vegas are too much to overcome. I also think that after a while you will see which offshores are there to accept wagers, and which are there just to accept suckers bets. Even with all the following and cloning, there has to be more and more to chose from.

I would like it if some of the Managers of that time who read these posts, If they would comment about the drastic change that has happened in this industry.......

[reno]

Phil, everyone has different requests regarding burial. For example, Rock Hudson requested that he be buried face down, so his friends could come by for a cold one. In my case, with the Don Best Feed, my friends could come by, check on the games, and shred their losing tickets on the tombstone, as a way of honoring me.

[scott]

POLAR:IF YOU THINK THE 80'S WERE GREAT (AND INDEED THEY WERE) YOU WOULD REALLY DIG THE STOREFRONT BOOKS BEFORE THE HOTELS. IT WAS A LAYERS & PLAYERS HEAVEN BUT NOBODY NEW IT AT THE TIME. THAT SCHOOL HAD TO CLOSE BEFORE WE REALIZED IT. BUT TIME MARCHES ON. I WAS INVOLVED WITH THE BIGGEST "JOINTS" OF ALL THREE ERAS. IM PROUD TO SAY I WELCOMED ALL PLAYERS AND THEY RESPONDED WITH LOYALTY. THEY ALWAYS VISITED MY PLACE FIRST AND WE GOT FIRST SHOT AT EACH OTHER. BUT LIKE THE SONG SAYS "ITS ALL OVER NOW". VEGAS IS HISTORY. SCOTT SCHETTLER

[Polar]

Scotty,

Even though we had our little problems, I would say you guys ran a really great book! The Stardust has always had a huge number of players small and big. Wiseguys and just plain players. I always thought the managers working at the dust at the time were all very sharp, very, very good.

I'm glad I was able to be a part of it. I learned alot from being in Vegas at the time. I could have never learned from a bunch of idiots (you guys were not a bunch of idiots) At the time I didn't think the managers in Vegas were that good, But as time goes on I can see they were very sharp.

Some of them...........

Take care, Robbie............

[cashusking]

Agree with the Vegas is dangerous comments - no longer a place to frequent the streets with cash in pocket.

Also the comments about the bright minds at many of the casinos mentioned by Polar. But the GOLDEN NUGGET? They knew how to STEAL. Between them and the Barbary Coast they earned enough bad will from regulators to help the demise of Las Vegas sportsbetting into the 31rst century.

Once a players paradise, Nevada now a barren wasteland of opporunity for the gambler.

Part of the problem is the new breed of managers as Polar suggests but much blame lies at the feet of gutless ignorant hotel casino beancounting management. They approached sports books with an attitude that "we can't make money at it so let's just do the bare minimum we have to do not to lose our hotel customers." Then they go into a two year blue funk because their result $uck.

Somewhere along the line they forgot what Warren Nelson in Reno (Scotty knows a little about him) learned from the school of hard knocks. Get 'em in the door and keep them there somehow (drink tokes) and they'll find a way to pay for the party...

[scott]

Cashhusking: I certainly do know a little about Warren Nelson. He was the first inductee into the Nevada Gambling Hall of Fame and I was a guest at his table. Warren trusted me with opening his Race/Sportsbook with just one interview and a handshake. He told me to do what I thought was right and dont worry about the rest of management. I was allowed to do my job. What a concept!! The Book was wildly successful and is too this day thanks to Warrens good judgement when he hired Chris Andrews to succeed me. The corporate structure of the 90's casino doesn't lend itself to ever let another Sportsbook ever be successful. It's simply stifling. Their are plenty of knowledgable poeople out here to run the Sportsbooks but the arrogent people in charge of Nevada's gambling industry dont want them or their input. Im a good example. But it's not over yet. Lets see how these geniuses adjust after sabotaging the Sportsbooks. Scotty

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[ang19690]

Vegas in 1980s

3 Words
"The Computer Group"

Lines were weak and the "Genius" of Billy Walters and his group made millions.
Couldn't happen today!!