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I have personally enjoyed reading many of the posts in this forum. Reno’s posts are always informative and interesting although I disagree with some of his beliefs. Polar’s sparring with Skybook was extremely entertaining.
However, this forum while being among the best is still like any other public forum. It is filled with so many half-truths, out-and-out false hoods and misconceptions that will just confuse and mislead the novice observer who is looking for a better understanding of what this world is all about on the professional as well as recreational level.
In an attempt to give the novice observers a better understanding, this post will tell some true stories, give a basic explanation of how the wagering process evolves from the opening to the closing line, and then I will give an insight to my philosophy and beliefs in regards to my job as Wagering Director and my responsibility to the most important element in this business: the customer. This is not the beginning of a debate where I will be defending what I impart here. This is merely some information for anyone who wants to take it with a grain of salt. I will not be responding to any questions or comments in regards to the content of this piece. This is not the beginning of another Skybook thread which, while extremely entertaining, took on a life of it’s own until the Administrator closed the thread.
First of all I would like to address Reno’s claim in an earlier post that we went from one of his top books last year to a copycat book this year. What was the difference between last year and this year? The difference is similar to a correction in the stock market. Last year there was no stopping the avalanche of favorite wagering on all sports here. Baseball lines had to be moved in excess of 10 cents to get a buyback.
Point spread sports had to be moved a point or a point and a half to get a buy back. So what happened? In a stock market where stocks are overpriced and overvalued a correction occurs when there is a sell-off and stocks find their watershed level due to the actions of profit takers. Similarly, there was a deluge of sign ups here chomping at the bit to get the value of our dog prices. Consequently, this year we only had to move baseball 5-8 cents to get a buy back. This year in football the minute we go a half point out of whack there are plenty of clients waiting to play at these numbers. Clients who are playing the games for a decision not looking to scalp or middle a game.
Professional baseball handicappers make a price on the game and will not play under any circumstance unless they can get that price. For example, say the Poker Players want to play The Mets +45 but the screen has the team they are playing Atlanta –50 painted. Until the price reaches –55 they will not play the game. The game has no value to them until they can get the price they send the order out for.
There are a number of smaller, yet talented handicappers who jumped on BETMAKER’S numbers this year because there was value for them. Consequently, BETMAKER did not have to over move the price as we did last year.
The same holds true in football this year. Reno mentioned there was no movement in baseball totals. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. Early on BETMAKER was deluged with the over on baseball totals. I saw early enough that the totals were weak and I opened 5 cents higher on the over. BETMAKER had two crews going head to head. As soon as I opened a total 8 over –20 when the world had 8 over –15, I was bet under 8 EVEN my number settled at 8 FLAT and I booked from there.
Reno’s contention that we moved on air when the screen moved was not only an unfair observation--it was untrue. This is as much a business as General Motors and IBM and when it is run a such it is beneficial to the customers and the principals. In this business, as in the financial world, there are the Dow Jones 500 companies which I like to compare BETMAKER too and then there are the OTC or OVER THE COUNTER companies who may or may not be legitimate and who for whatever reason may or may not survive the season.
Where do you want to have your account? With an established company with a track record you can verify or a new company offering 20% sign up bonuses, or 05% or 08% wagering who may or may not survive the season depending upon whether or not they can weather the storm?
To survive in this business you have to be completely neutral and unemotional about the line and its movement. The road of sports betting and booking history is filled with bookmakers and bettors alike that let their opinion and emotion get the best of them.
One of the greats in the business told me a story about two individuals I knew. One a bettor and B.M and one a bookmaker. The bettor calls the bookmaker and asks “What’s S.F.?” The bookmaker replied “-2 ˝” The bettor inquired “What’s it good for?” The BM replied a 100 (100 dimes). The bettor said “give me S.F. –2 ˝ for a 100” and hung up the phone. 5 minutes later this exact conversation took place word for word. 5 minutes later this exact conversation took place again word for word. These two gentleman despised each other and would torment each other with catchy sayings like “take your skirt off and book” or when asked how much can I have on a game or how much do you want on a game, they would smartly reply “stick your head out the window and look up at the sky”, meaning the sky’s the limit.
Let’s summarize what occurred here and what was the final result. What occurred was that a BM with a big ego let his emotion get the best of him and he took 3 hits –2 ˝ at a 100 dimes a pop for a total of 300 dimes before he moved to SF –3. Result: the game closed SF –4 and they won by 30 pts. Sadly both these gentleman are now mere memories in the “Boulevard of Broken Dreams” in the history of this business. These two individuals were among the biggest of the big.
Do the certain people that post in this forum really believe that by posturing against certain companies or individuals they are going to get a true professional to make a move that would allow him or his company to be taken advantage of? If they do all I can say is best of luck to them. There is always so much talk of uniformity of the line. This truly amuses me. The market determines the price. If everybody loves the favorite the lines goes up, if everybody loves the dog the lines goes down and if the money is divided evenly the price doesn’t move. It’s as simple as that.
How is the line determined from start to finish? Simple. The overnite or opening line is created by such handicappers as Roxy, Lem Banker, Bob Martin or JK. These gentlemen are linemakers or oddsmakers. Their job is not to make a line that reflects who they think will win the game. Their job is to post a line that will draw an equal amount of action on both sides. These lines are then offered up to a respected number of public handicappers for small bets. This further sharpens the line. This line is now open to the public and is now the property of the Wagering Manager whose job it is to manage the line. How is this done? As Emeril says, “this ain’t rocket science”. It is done through a series of moves called the “ladder principle”.
Example: Uncle Barney’s Friendly Book wants to hold $100 on every betting proposition in the house, this is the HOUSE HOLD. And this is how Uncle Barney would move the line:
TENN –8
ARK +8
When Uncle Barney gets up to $100 on Tenn –8 he moves the line to 8 ˝ , if he gets a 100 on Tenn –8 ˝ he goes to 9. Now he gets a $100 on ARK +9 he moves the line to 8 ˝, then he gets a $100 on ARK +8 ˝ and the game goes off. The net result is there is $200 on TENN and $200 on ARK. If the game doesn’t land 8 or 9 Uncle Barney wins $20 for servicing his clients. Uncle Barney dreams about doing this on every game. Every game with an equal amount on every side and numbers don’t land.
Reno dreams of the two individuals mentioned earlier getting back into the game. Individual #1 loves the Atlanta Braves so in his office Atlanta is –77. Individual #2 loves the Mets so in his office Atlanta is -63. The rest of the world is Atlanta –70 painted. Reno lays Atlanta –63 with individual #2 and takes the Mets +67 with individual #1. In Reno’s dream, the Mets win and he earns 4 cents and doesn’t even go for the phone call, which was toll free.
And then there is the World Famous Legend B.W. In his dream, he sends his movers out with a phony order TENN –6 over N.D. on a Monday Night, the follower drive the game to TENN –8 by game day which is Saturday. In his dream, his “beards” so tactfully go out and play ND +8 that the line doesn’t even move. In his dream, the final score is TENN 28, ND 21.
The game lands 7 and he takes down all the money. Only one thing--Uncle Barney and Reno most likely are only going to experience their dreams in their sleep. BW on the other hand has turned the manipulation of the line into an art form and lives out his dream each and every football and basketball season at the expense of unsuspecting BM’s who shade the line after the initial hit and with the help of followers whose public money finishes driving the line out of whack.
I hope whoever has taken the time to read this has found it to be informative and entertaining. May your season be enjoyable, entertaining and exciting, whatever your favorite sport is.
That’s all folks…
Wagering Director
BETMAKER.COM
However, this forum while being among the best is still like any other public forum. It is filled with so many half-truths, out-and-out false hoods and misconceptions that will just confuse and mislead the novice observer who is looking for a better understanding of what this world is all about on the professional as well as recreational level.
In an attempt to give the novice observers a better understanding, this post will tell some true stories, give a basic explanation of how the wagering process evolves from the opening to the closing line, and then I will give an insight to my philosophy and beliefs in regards to my job as Wagering Director and my responsibility to the most important element in this business: the customer. This is not the beginning of a debate where I will be defending what I impart here. This is merely some information for anyone who wants to take it with a grain of salt. I will not be responding to any questions or comments in regards to the content of this piece. This is not the beginning of another Skybook thread which, while extremely entertaining, took on a life of it’s own until the Administrator closed the thread.
First of all I would like to address Reno’s claim in an earlier post that we went from one of his top books last year to a copycat book this year. What was the difference between last year and this year? The difference is similar to a correction in the stock market. Last year there was no stopping the avalanche of favorite wagering on all sports here. Baseball lines had to be moved in excess of 10 cents to get a buyback.
Point spread sports had to be moved a point or a point and a half to get a buy back. So what happened? In a stock market where stocks are overpriced and overvalued a correction occurs when there is a sell-off and stocks find their watershed level due to the actions of profit takers. Similarly, there was a deluge of sign ups here chomping at the bit to get the value of our dog prices. Consequently, this year we only had to move baseball 5-8 cents to get a buy back. This year in football the minute we go a half point out of whack there are plenty of clients waiting to play at these numbers. Clients who are playing the games for a decision not looking to scalp or middle a game.
Professional baseball handicappers make a price on the game and will not play under any circumstance unless they can get that price. For example, say the Poker Players want to play The Mets +45 but the screen has the team they are playing Atlanta –50 painted. Until the price reaches –55 they will not play the game. The game has no value to them until they can get the price they send the order out for.
There are a number of smaller, yet talented handicappers who jumped on BETMAKER’S numbers this year because there was value for them. Consequently, BETMAKER did not have to over move the price as we did last year.
The same holds true in football this year. Reno mentioned there was no movement in baseball totals. That couldn’t be farther from the truth. Early on BETMAKER was deluged with the over on baseball totals. I saw early enough that the totals were weak and I opened 5 cents higher on the over. BETMAKER had two crews going head to head. As soon as I opened a total 8 over –20 when the world had 8 over –15, I was bet under 8 EVEN my number settled at 8 FLAT and I booked from there.
Reno’s contention that we moved on air when the screen moved was not only an unfair observation--it was untrue. This is as much a business as General Motors and IBM and when it is run a such it is beneficial to the customers and the principals. In this business, as in the financial world, there are the Dow Jones 500 companies which I like to compare BETMAKER too and then there are the OTC or OVER THE COUNTER companies who may or may not be legitimate and who for whatever reason may or may not survive the season.
Where do you want to have your account? With an established company with a track record you can verify or a new company offering 20% sign up bonuses, or 05% or 08% wagering who may or may not survive the season depending upon whether or not they can weather the storm?
To survive in this business you have to be completely neutral and unemotional about the line and its movement. The road of sports betting and booking history is filled with bookmakers and bettors alike that let their opinion and emotion get the best of them.
One of the greats in the business told me a story about two individuals I knew. One a bettor and B.M and one a bookmaker. The bettor calls the bookmaker and asks “What’s S.F.?” The bookmaker replied “-2 ˝” The bettor inquired “What’s it good for?” The BM replied a 100 (100 dimes). The bettor said “give me S.F. –2 ˝ for a 100” and hung up the phone. 5 minutes later this exact conversation took place word for word. 5 minutes later this exact conversation took place again word for word. These two gentleman despised each other and would torment each other with catchy sayings like “take your skirt off and book” or when asked how much can I have on a game or how much do you want on a game, they would smartly reply “stick your head out the window and look up at the sky”, meaning the sky’s the limit.
Let’s summarize what occurred here and what was the final result. What occurred was that a BM with a big ego let his emotion get the best of him and he took 3 hits –2 ˝ at a 100 dimes a pop for a total of 300 dimes before he moved to SF –3. Result: the game closed SF –4 and they won by 30 pts. Sadly both these gentleman are now mere memories in the “Boulevard of Broken Dreams” in the history of this business. These two individuals were among the biggest of the big.
Do the certain people that post in this forum really believe that by posturing against certain companies or individuals they are going to get a true professional to make a move that would allow him or his company to be taken advantage of? If they do all I can say is best of luck to them. There is always so much talk of uniformity of the line. This truly amuses me. The market determines the price. If everybody loves the favorite the lines goes up, if everybody loves the dog the lines goes down and if the money is divided evenly the price doesn’t move. It’s as simple as that.
How is the line determined from start to finish? Simple. The overnite or opening line is created by such handicappers as Roxy, Lem Banker, Bob Martin or JK. These gentlemen are linemakers or oddsmakers. Their job is not to make a line that reflects who they think will win the game. Their job is to post a line that will draw an equal amount of action on both sides. These lines are then offered up to a respected number of public handicappers for small bets. This further sharpens the line. This line is now open to the public and is now the property of the Wagering Manager whose job it is to manage the line. How is this done? As Emeril says, “this ain’t rocket science”. It is done through a series of moves called the “ladder principle”.
Example: Uncle Barney’s Friendly Book wants to hold $100 on every betting proposition in the house, this is the HOUSE HOLD. And this is how Uncle Barney would move the line:
TENN –8
ARK +8
When Uncle Barney gets up to $100 on Tenn –8 he moves the line to 8 ˝ , if he gets a 100 on Tenn –8 ˝ he goes to 9. Now he gets a $100 on ARK +9 he moves the line to 8 ˝, then he gets a $100 on ARK +8 ˝ and the game goes off. The net result is there is $200 on TENN and $200 on ARK. If the game doesn’t land 8 or 9 Uncle Barney wins $20 for servicing his clients. Uncle Barney dreams about doing this on every game. Every game with an equal amount on every side and numbers don’t land.
Reno dreams of the two individuals mentioned earlier getting back into the game. Individual #1 loves the Atlanta Braves so in his office Atlanta is –77. Individual #2 loves the Mets so in his office Atlanta is -63. The rest of the world is Atlanta –70 painted. Reno lays Atlanta –63 with individual #2 and takes the Mets +67 with individual #1. In Reno’s dream, the Mets win and he earns 4 cents and doesn’t even go for the phone call, which was toll free.
And then there is the World Famous Legend B.W. In his dream, he sends his movers out with a phony order TENN –6 over N.D. on a Monday Night, the follower drive the game to TENN –8 by game day which is Saturday. In his dream, his “beards” so tactfully go out and play ND +8 that the line doesn’t even move. In his dream, the final score is TENN 28, ND 21.
The game lands 7 and he takes down all the money. Only one thing--Uncle Barney and Reno most likely are only going to experience their dreams in their sleep. BW on the other hand has turned the manipulation of the line into an art form and lives out his dream each and every football and basketball season at the expense of unsuspecting BM’s who shade the line after the initial hit and with the help of followers whose public money finishes driving the line out of whack.
I hope whoever has taken the time to read this has found it to be informative and entertaining. May your season be enjoyable, entertaining and exciting, whatever your favorite sport is.
That’s all folks…
Wagering Director
BETMAKER.COM
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