This is how I see it...

[WWTS Marketing]

Time was when this forum was entertaining, educational and at times amusing. The “posts” of all of you players accomplished this. I now find the “highway” cluttered with billboards filled with ads extolling the greatness of their Sports Books.
There is no doubt I my mind if a posted a request for a Sports Book which gave “head” at halftime I would get 3 replies saying, “yes we do.” Contact Mary Blow our Head Marketer. We assure you her position on the matter will satisfy your needs.
If I want to watch commercials I can turn on ESPN.


Roger

[Polar]

Or we could get on our knees and play with the "Leroy's of the offshore" and pretend we found the greatest book of all time!

When there are more people willing to blast all these sucker books (BOOKS THAT JUST WANT SUCKERS and DON'T WANT TO REALLY COMPETE WITH THE PROS) I'll write more posts. I can not believe people like all these LEROY type offshore CLONE JOINTS.

chao gafito.....

[Hartley]

Huh??

Let me get this straight, Mary's giving a bl0wj0b to Leroy? What does that have to do with gambling?

[DeacDoug]

Hartley, to clarify WWTS believes that it is sufficient to post straight lines and totals and to take those wages without much opportunity for erotica. Since WWTS is well-established and presumably quite profitable, WWTS is happy with the status quo. Other sportsbooks are trying to compete for customers and in effect steal WWTS' customers by offering more exotic wagering opportunities and thereby incurring more risk. WWTS seems to be resentful of this. Polar accurately points out that WWTS wants to be the "Leroy's" of the Caribbean. Leroy's, for the unitiated, runs a chain of books thruout Nevada for smaller casinos which want to have a sportsbook without the accompanying risk. The lines are identical thru the system and the limits relatively low. Leroy's is owned by a former dentist who brought a computer whiz over from Pakistan resulting in the invention of the computer software that created computized books and effectively cloned lines.

[skeptic]

DeacDoug,

I think you have it wrong. WWTS is not resentful of wxotic wagering opportunities at other shops. Roger is saying he is sick of other books responding to almost every inquistion by players with a response touting their own operation. For the most part players are looking for responses from other players. For some reason there are some books that view EVERY request for information as a chance to tout themselves. Of course they say, "we pay fast, we are safe, best service, best lines, most wager types etc. etc.etc." I think Roger is saying the board was better when legit players responded.

Books should post here and respnd when a post is directed at them. Or even when they feel they need to defend an attack.

As far as "Leroy's books" are concerned I don't think Polar is referring to WWTS. He is referring to the Starnet books and all of the other McBooks that just buy a software package, do some marketing and presto they are a sportsbook/casino.

[WWTS Marketing]

My post was meant to question the reason why an enjoyable forum has turned into a sea of commercials. I enjoy reading about the great “wins” and bad “beats.” I enjoy memories brought to mind by Reno. I enjoy someone’s perception of “value” in a number. “Why ruin this with constant commercials?”
As for stealing customers… We have not even begun to see how huge offshore gambling will become – Therefore there’s enough of the pie for everyone. If a Book offers a 20% signup and it fits your needs, then by all means you should signup with that Book. The same applies to “no juice” and all other “perks.” I really don’t give a big “Rats A$$” what other Books do. Ask around the industry, and other Sports Books will tell you they have a friend in WWTS, because we always try to help. We are not “all things” to “all people” nor do we try to be… But when the race is over and the smoke has cleared we’ll still be around. I just won’t bore you with that fact by posting commercials on your site.
So let’s get back to topics of interest and even the “Ranting and Raving” of a “Wild Man…” By the way, “Welcome Back Polar!”

Thanks

Roger

[intheknow]

Amen WWTS,
I to am tired of books staging questions and providing the answers as a means of tooting their own horn. I have followed this forum since 1996 before the merger and it has indeed changed. There are more schills and lies being told than you can shake a stick at. Hell even Polar and I got into it a couple of times, but at no time did I tout or even mention our book. What ever happened to a book that just took great care of their customers, no busy signals, perfect english speaking clerks that understand what your trying to play instead of just inputing the data. These perks create a higher cost structure in training and equipment, but no one seems to care as all the talk is about bonuses, give aways, and what can you give me. Sportsbooks are a business and hard enough to run successfully. Anytime you give away more on the front end you must sacifice quality on another end. This doesn't seem to bother anyone anymore. Boy has this business changed!!!

[Junior44]

WWTS Marketing,

I view you post as nothing more than an indirect way to tout your own book. As far as this site becoming a haven for "billboard" style advertisements, I just don't see it. If a shop wants to respond to a poster's inquiry, it is the inquisitor's prerogative to determine if the response is a sincere attempt to offer up their own wagering alternatives and practices or a complete pile of crap. For me personally, I don't give a rat's ass if a shop responds to a particular question or not, nor do I care the manner in which they respond. It is not for me to make this judgement, that is left to the operators of this site. Contrary to how you feel, I find this site very entertaining, very educational, and quite amusing. With the assumption that the majority of the people reading this thread know nothing about WWTS, instead of stating "when the smoke clears, we will still be here", why not back it up with some evidence of why this is the case. For me personally, I have also followed this forum since the early days before the merger (when the home page looked like something out of a startrek episode), and am knowledable as to what WWTS does and does not bring to the table. However, when a newcomer to this site sees "when the race is over, and the smoke clears, we'll still be here", what does that individual have to go on. That statement, in and of itself, provides nothing of value to the uninformed and opens up a can of worms for somebody new searching for a book that meets their needs. Hoping for some clarification, not for myself, but for the many individuals, who perhaps, are visiting this site for the first time.

[Dot Mix]

I agree Junior and I am not impressed at all with WWWT's reps sexist sense of humor with regards to what he thinks is funny about some book offering a wagering options on a sex act. I understand he think's he's being "macho-cute", but there are woman, youngsters and church-going people perusing these boards , and I for one, am offended by his attitude or his humor and my door has been slammed shut forever on WWTS. They may be a fine book----but I don't want to contribute to buying that guys Mercedes.

Furthermore-----as to the response by another book about all the different options being offered out there as inducements---too bad you don't like it. New books are popping up everyday like ducks in a shooting gallery (no doubt good and bad) but competition spurs incentives to gain business, and I along with most others who come here daily are interested in attractive options and incentives. And don't you "fat cat" books out there get too complacent now. Complacency in any given market has destroyed many a solid businesses and innovative options with competitive juice will always attract new business and hopefully keep old businesses wide awake.

Dot

[Hartley]

Junior I agree and I'll go one further (and I apologize to Brian and Jeff ahead of time if I overstep my boundaries here), but it appears to me that WWTS is the only sportsbook to be given its own forum in Bettorsworld to "respond to questions and concerns", and to me this is the biggest form of "advertising" going.

How many times have we seen announcements in that forum about promotions, new bet offers, hurricane problems etc. Unfortunately other books don't have that opportunity.

[STING]

I'm curious if this has to do with the Action Sports thread being that WWTS originated there. Small island - maybe Roger knows these individuals (Meyers, Walters, etc...) or am I reading too much into this?

[Jeff]

Ok, I'll address a few points here......

First, Hartley, you are wrong. Any book that advertises on Bettorsworld is entitlted to have their own "forum" if they choose. Hats off to WWTS for keeping tabs on their forum and addressing questions when asked.

As far as the posting forums turning into a commercial, I'm not sure exactly what Roger is referring to unless it's the action sports thread. That thread was allowed to stay simply because the book took a few hits, so to be fair, he gets a plug. We wouldn't tolerate Action Sports coming in on a regular basis leaving a link or phone number.

In the past, we've allowed "plugs" to books that don't advertise here. Loose Lines is a great example. In this instance, there's a trade off that's well worth it to everyone. The trade off is honest, straight forward information and insight into this industry as provided by the opinionated Mr Polar. I don't always agree with the guy, but it's not always about agreeing.

We feel that as a way to make sure they reach all visitors to this site, the sportsbooks that advertise on BWorld should have the right to use the forum to announce specials, etc.etc. Matter of fact, generally, we post these items for the books.

We've tried in the past to have a separate posting forum just for this purpose, but it didn't seem to get much use.

We try to post press releases on the "Breaking News" page as well as in the forums so that no one misses them.

That could change if that's what the visitors to this site demand.

We want to do what's best for the majority, so certainly if people have a problem with seeing this sort of thing in the posting forums, you need to express your opinions either here or via private email.

The bottom line is that it's not a perfect science. We do our best to keep the forums "balanced", and to keep the forums from turning into just another forum where degenerates gather.

We'll gladly take 5 quality well though out posts over 50 posts by a moron.

[Hartley]

Jeff, do the other books know they are entitled to a forum?

I find it hard to believe that no other books are interested in setting one up.

[chestrockwells]

Regardless of what you think of WWTS, and I have my own strong opinion, you have to applaud the fact that they leave themselves open to potential criticism and examination here,more so by having a forum. Realistically they really don't need that. Let's face it, as a group, we're a tough audience. We dissect every word, look for hidden meanings that may or may not be there etc etc. Talk to some of the books on the phone and you'll come to realize that for better or for worse they are probably not ready for some of the scrutiny and probably tiresome questioning. This has nothing to do with them being solid books or not. It's just PR stuff. It's clear that there is still a lot of the old school offshore. With the potential offshore clientele for the future so large, it seems that to just stay out of here unless absolutely necessary is a good strategy, since the potential payoff is not worth it. Look at some of the more entertaining Polar posts from 4-5 months ago. When all was said and done, how many people rushed out to sign up with Looselines? All the people who came in and stood up for them didn't erase, I suspect the doubts. And who knows, maybe they're a great book? But PR wise, I don't know. So Hartley, I suspect that the reason a lot of the books choose not to have a forum here is that it's a hassle and the rewards do not substantially outweigh the risk or the bs.And as for the snagging the newcomers that stroll through here, I would suspect a good ad with a hefty bonus exerts a much heavier pull than you or me potentially saying xyz is a great book because blah blah blah, or having a forum here. When all is said and done we're just going talk talk talk. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's important to realize it for what it is.

[Hartley]

chestrclockofwalls, you wrote:

>>Let's face it, as a group, we're a tough audience. We dissect every word, look for hidden meanings that may or may not be there etc etc. <<

What exactly do you mean by that??? .